Welcome Back, Russia

Did anyone actualy expect things to move so close to a free democracy that old values would not re-emerge?

..the Great Game never stops, it is continual. Seperate moralitry from how you view the world. It only knows power. US, Russia, China, they all have their "interests". That is all that matters. The Ukraine is rich in minerals with I believe 20 million Russians living there. Whether Iraq, Afghanistan , Ukraine exct it all relates to the ongoing friction between the two or three. Like Glaciers continually rubbing up against each other. The newer Twist, I think is the TransNational Corporations, how do they change the
picture ?

assoholic said:

..the Great Game never stops, it is continual. Seperate moralitry from how you view the world. It only knows power. US, Russia, China, they all have their "interests". That is all that matters. The Ukraine is rich in minerals with I believe 20 million Russians living there. Whether Iraq, Afghanistan , Ukraine exct it all relates to the ongoing friction between the two or three. Like Glaciers continually rubbing up against each other. The newer Twist, I think is the TransNational Corporations, how do they change the
picture ?

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Damn sounds like I agree

but where does thisd leave the west?

..I dont know that much about the situation, other then the Russians have certainly leant a helping hand in trying to keep their guy in power. As usual with their Intelligence agencies, actually poisining the opposition candidate.It may turn out pretty messy, like I mentioned a good chunk of the population are ethnic Russians. You have to remembwer that in WW2 , the Ukraines wheat was a big prize. The Russians will do whatever they can to try and keep it in the fold. The West will probabaly try and fan the Democratic flame, knowing most ethnic Ukranians favour closer relations with the west. I think the Ukraine is the new" boundary", the new line the Russians will not accept being crossed.
In the Great game they were forced to make a retreat , out of Eastern Europe exct. They will try and make their stand in the Ukraine, its too important to let go easily. The next week will be tense to see if the Ukranian Government cracks down, it will tell us a good deal of what the world will look like the next little while, how much is left of Russian strength.

The Ukraine has been independant since 1991. Russia doesn't own it anymore and thus can't draw any lines around it. Of course, anyone crazy enough to march towards Russia would find themselves in a nuclear shambles.

The evil empire didn't suffer a setback. It immolated itself, not even requiring one kick to smash the rotten door down. It failed in the most absolute sense of the word. It failed because feudalism on crack wasn't a viable socio-economic relationship. It failed because an equal lack of opportunity forced it to fall farther and farther behind the west with each passing day. Its fight with the west was fought, to the most extreme extent imaginable, upon the backs of the slaves, of which it murdered some 60 millions. It failed, most utterly and absolutely, when the slaves revolted and in the course of this magnificent standard of failure, it couldn't bring itself to fire even a shot. Once the failure was complete, a band of renegades attempted a putsch, which was promptly smashed by the army. It was this military which announced to the world that the cold war was over.

The lesson of failure was that Russia has to play the modern game. Its major concern is that it is several hundred years behind at learning the rules of this game. One of the most important rules of this game is that you cooperate with other States, in oppsition to the past game of assimilating and enslaving them. And the present Russian political system knows this to be true.

..Russia pulled out of Esatern Europe because its Economy crashed. Because it entrenched power in the hands of a few.
Communism's great failing.
As for Co-operation, you mean like the US in Iraq ?
Bull, these countries behind the scenes are constantly at each others throats. Occassionally like in Afghanistan Iraq it bubbles to the surface.

Since you mention Iraq, good, as it is indeed relevant to this discussion. Iraq was a vestige of this cold war, one of the dirty elements employed by the western side. After the cold war this rabid dog had to be put down. The only shame here is that it took so long to do so, to the great distress of the Iraqi people.

Iraq will shortly be free to play the game or suffer the consequences, consequences which this time will be their own doing. Finally they are free to set their own course.

..you seem to believe in some dream world. Sorry its not the world I see or read about.

Yet you can't counter my point, which should be easy to do if reason is on your side.

..you made no point, you shouted a slogan.Iraq is a broken country , after 10 years of sanctions and now this War.They will have to fight hard to remain a soveriegn country. Again, you just seem to see a different World.

I think, overall, it might be more accurate to say that BOTH the US and Russia, for different reasons perhaps, are sliding back to the bad old days of Empire.

The world has become a much more dangerous place recently.

Precisely.
LOL

This is the scenario that is going to have people looking back ten years from now saying geez, maybe things would have been different if Canada had a way to defend itself. Why would anyone believe the Cold War was over ? War never ends, it just shuffles the deck every so often. And the worst part is when everyone wakes up and realizes that a sovereign country can't be svereign without a capable military, it will be too late.

BS

Yep.

..well well well, look who shows up on the scene Lech Walessa, Polish Solidarity guy, to stroke the fires. Looks like another Supreme Court is about to step into the spotlight. Coincidence or the way things are done now.

Drunken Master said:

Oh, and has anybody else noticed irony in the fact that the Bush admin is suddenly very concerned about somebody else stealing an election?

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I just love this, the left holding on to the fiction of W stealing an election. There is a group offering 200k to anyone who can prove vote fraud in Ohio - very funny. Come on down and collect if you're so sure.... This lack of a grasp on reality is why the left keeps losing elections down here - we couldn't have lost it must have been stolen. LOL

OTB

Or perhaps it was ironic due to the US' propping up all kinds of only vaguely legitimate governments all over the world over the past fifty years.

Ranger68 said:

Or perhaps it was ironic due to the US' propping up all kinds of only vaguely legitimate governments all over the world over the past fifty years.

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Like yours?

Just kidding.

Just start a "I hate US Foreign Policy" thread, it will be a hit.

OTB