War on Terror

danmand,

The US spending was true before the "war on terror".

OTB

danmand said:

The military-industrial complex have finally hit the jackpot.

Instead of being dependent on conventional wars, which are profitable, but has a defined time-frame, usually followed by a dry spell of disarmement; The war on terror is much better.

It has to be fought everywhere there are dark skinned people, and nobody in their right mind will ever state that the war on terror has been won or has ended.

The marketing guys are licking their chops now.

PS: the US spends more on military than the rest of the world combined.

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US suppliers are not the only ones profiting from this.
When the issue on the missile defense came up, Canadian companies were licking their chops, because of the lucrative contracts from it.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

The issue really is the rest of the world doesn't spend enough. The EU (and Canada for that matter) spending on defense is ridiculous - the EU has gotten used to us footing the bill (while they get paid by us to feed our troops to defend them).

Ike would have been proud of this post!

OTB

onthebottom said:

danmand,

The US spending was true before the "war on terror".

OTB

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Does that "US [military] spending" include the budget for homeland security? And the "war on terrorism" in Iraq?

The next viral pandemic will make terrorism look like child's play. Maybe the CDC should get most of homeland security's budget.

More people will die of the flu this year in the US than 12X the deaths at the WTC.

But then again ... that is not sensational. ... can't get all patriotic and wave a flag at a virus.

I'm just waiting to hear that that genius Smerfie has to say. hehehe

TP,

Don't know on homeland security but even without it the US spends about what the rest of the world does on defense.

How many people will die of the flu this year? 12 X 4k? I really don't know. You are equating flying jets into office buildings with the flu? Interesting approach - now if people would only wear seatbelts we could close up the military and all go home.

OTB

OTB at it again ...

onthebottom said:

... How many people will die of the flu this year? 12 X 4k? I really don't know. ...

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Err ... I think that it was less than 3k! ... but anyway ...

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease.htm

"An average of about 36,000 people per year in the United States die from influenza."

And that isn't even due to a pandemic; which we are due for.

onthebottom said:

... You are equating flying jets into office buildings with the flu? ...
OTB

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I equate death with death and not hysteria and fear against rational odds, no matter from which source. Again death is death. I guess that you would rather die from the flu than a terrorist attack. I would rather not die at all. And a staticical approach to the threat responces seems wise to me, even if that is not in the best interest of the haves and have mores, which I think was danmand's point.

onthebottom said:

... - now if people would only wear seatbelts we could close up the military and all go home.

OTB

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Ah the obfuscate approach. How cleaver.

The point was not millitary spending as such but the bonnanza of the "war on terror" for the haves and have mores in the military-industrial complex. Whose base?

Again:

1- Was homeland security budgets part of past millitary spending? Is it lumped in with current millitary spending?

2- Was the "war on terror" in Iraq part of past millitary spending? Is it lumped in with current millitary spending?

Two easy, two part, questions OTB. Straight forward questions. But I bet that you would like to obfuscate them with statements like:

" ... equating flying jets into office buildings with the flu ... "

and

" ... if people would only wear seatbelts we could close up the military ... "

Ahahaha ....

danmand said:

... The marketing guys are licking their chops now. ...

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Russia has seen the light.

http://search.csmonitor.com/2004/0616/p01s04-woeu.html

TP,

I don't believe that the Homeland security budget is part of the Pentagon budget. The second question doesn't make much sense. I think the valid question is, has military spending gone up (thus a windfall to the IMC that Ike was so worried about) and what kind of spending has that been. Certainly the people who make ammo rounds and bombs have seen some orders but I would think much of the cost is fuel and personal related (food, transport.....) which is hardly IMC related.

As a percentage of GDP has defense spending increased, I don't know, probably some but not a windfall amount.

Spending on security has increased (Homeland Security budget) but to some extent the HS department is a collection of pre-existing departments (the airport scanners were always there but now all the people running them have the same shirts).

OTB

onthebottom said:

... I don't believe that the Homeland security budget is part of the Pentagon budget. The second question doesn't make much sense. ...OTB

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Exactly my point. They are both not part of the official yearly "military" budget. So this secondary "military" spending is the trough that the "opportunist" are feeding at.

A country the size of the US who is a super power will have a sizeable military budget. That is the price of being the world leader. No arguments here. But see above. And below. hahaha

Also there is no question that terrorism is a threat. However the war in Iraq was/is not part of that threat (until the US made it one). And the homeland security budget should pay for a Jet for Alaska's governor?!?

Personally I think that Intelligence and covert ops are better places to spend terrorism dollars for bang for the buck. But no let's alienate the grunts at the CIA because they are not sycophant yes men.

Also I think more focus should be placed on other National security threats which are not as sexy and not as rewarding for those with power. Namely a looming viral pandemic and the US National deficit and total debt. All just IMHO of course.

In fairness, officials from both main parties are just as corrupt. Be they associated with the Carlyle group or the Albright group. Strange the US wants countries to forgive Iraq debt but these interests will try and make sure that Kuwait get paid back, minus large handling fees of course. With James Baker conveniently filling both rolls so the inside track and advantage is gained by ... guess who?

TP,

But I would say that the Homeland Security budget is primarily the collection of other budgets, not entirely incremental spending.

Is there more spending, yes. Should there be more spending, yes. Is there a debate about where to spend it, yes. Do the US people's representatives get to decide, yes.

Why are you so worked up about it, it's not your money is it?

OTB

onthebottom said:

... Why are you so worked up about it, it's not your money is it?

OTB

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Have you not noticed? I like to shoot my mouth off. I'm not worked up about it, or anything else for that matter. I just like to argue and pontificate and hopefully push buttons. hehehe It's a fine sport.

We get a lot of that here (looks in mirror).

OTB

I propose that "pork barrel" spending is not unique to the homeland security budget.
To discuss this we would need a whole seperate thread. While people whine about tax cuts increasing the deficit, a lot of money could be saved by eliminating prok and subsidize.

I always like a bit of a deficit, keeps the pressure on spending - although 4.5% is a bit high for me.

OTB

Winston said:

Depends on your POV.

From where I sit, the US is spending too much on its military, and getting into foreign adventures that it should not be. And not getting into the humanitarian missions that it perhaps should.

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Plenty of POVs out there but you have to agree it is a dangerous world.

We are the largest sender of aid in the world (although many beat us as a % of GDP, or it may be Japan) including the 15B Aids program. I guess you can always do more but we do more than most.

OTB

This I agree with. Sudan is reverting back to a state of nature and very little is said. Where was the left when Powell suggested action?

Winston said:

And not getting into the humanitarian missions that it perhaps should.

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danmand said:

That is the strategy, no money for social programs.

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It is, show me an “over funded� social program anywhere in the world, they are bottomless pits. There is consistent whining about the funding of US schools, in 2001 (before some of Bush’s spending increases) the US spent 8,100 per student, more than any large country – by comparison the UK spent 5,300. Is that program overspent by 2,800, of course not because social spending is a bottomless pit – just one example.

3 of Bush’s 4 years were in the top 10 largest discretionary spending increases, his education and Medicare expansions were the largest those programs have seen. You can call W a lot of things but stingy isn’t one of them.

OTB

Re: Re: War on Terror

NMD wasn't designed to handle a war with Russia. Both players know that MAD still applies. Any all out action will result is total devastation. From the link, Moscow is targeted with some heavy firepower:

According to a recent detailed analysis in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, the CIA in 1967 estimated that Moscow's nonhardened system was "subject to saturation and exhaustion." Still, it was targeted with missiles from Polaris submarines and more than 100 Minuteman ICBMs - some 10 percent of all of the US ICBM force. The result was a "staggering average of eight 1-megaton warheads per interceptor launch site" with a combined force exceeding 7,500 Hiroshima bombs. Such "chilling examples ... fundamentally contradict the portrayal of missile defenses as nonoffensive" concludes the Bulletin.

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That's enough to not even leave rubble ... Rather, the NMD program is for a brainfart on part of Dear Leader or some other moonbat.

Remember, we nuked Japan twice for a relatively small thing. I wonder if the moonbats of the world are aware of what the American response would entail ... Operation Divine Retribution ...

tompeepin said:

Russia has seen the light.

http://search.csmonitor.com/2004/0616/p01s04-woeu.html

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