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One of the forgotten real issues in this campaign

langeweile

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Sep 21, 2004
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An Issue Undebated

There are a host of unanswered questions about Bush's intentions regarding Social Security, and the campaign so far hasn't shed much light on any of them. Bush has said he wouldn't increase payroll taxes, but maintaining benefits for current retirees while allowing some portion of current payroll taxes to go into privately owned accounts will cost at least $1 trillion and perhaps much more, depending on what estimates are used. Bush hasn't said where the money would come from.

Kerry, on the other hand, hasn't said how he would preserve the current system. Social Security's finances are unstable, and its trustees stated in the most recent annual report that by the year 2078 it will require a payroll tax increase of nearly 50% to maintain the currently scheduled rise in benefit levels. If taxes are not increased and no other changes are made, benefits would have to be cut 32% that year.
 

Questor

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OMG! A 32% cut in social security payments by the year 2078, if taxes are not increased and no other changes are made! Hard to figure out why that isn't a top issue in the campaign. The spin doctors must have worked pretty hard to keep that one off the front pages.

If I may quote one of the brightest minds of the 21st Century. Okay, maybe not that bright, but in this case, appropriate..."Your perception is your reality..so its your problem..not mine." ROFL
 

langeweile

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Sep 21, 2004
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DonQuixote said:
My question is: "Why is it costing me $2+ for a gallon of gas
when it costs less than $10 to drill for it and ship it to a domestic
refinary? I find it ironic that both POTUS and Darth Vadar are
former oil executives. What happened to the President's energy
policy and why is a barrel of oil continuing to climb? Profit is
one thing, gouging is another. I'm waiting for the oil companies
to come out with their financial reports for this quarter. Anyone
want to bet their profits are wayyyy up?

Just a hunch.
The cost of oil as it relates to gasoline is only part of the equation. The high cost is partially driven by a limited amount of refinary capacity.
There has been no new refinery build in the USA for the last 10 or 15 years.
And of course somebody is profiting from this. It is called supply and demand. Maybe if some of us would give up their Suburbans, it certainly would help.
 

langeweile

Banned
Sep 21, 2004
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In a van down by the river
Re: langeweile, my friend.

DonQuixote said:
I'm more interested in the performance of the oil companies.

I'll bet you a meal at a fine Hungarian restaurant in GTA that
the oil companies show substantial increases in revenue
this quarter.

Would you like to take me up on this bet?

Don
I agree with you on the profits, that's why I have 50% of my 401k portfolio in Energy ETF's, SPDR's or similiar.

I still have dinner with you at a Hungarian Restaurant, my treat. I will be in Toronto this Thursday night.
 

langeweile

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Sep 21, 2004
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Questor said:
OMG! A 32% cut in social security payments by the year 2078, if taxes are not increased and no other changes are made! Hard to figure out why that isn't a top issue in the campaign. The spin doctors must have worked pretty hard to keep that one off the front pages.

If I may quote one of the brightest minds of the 21st Century. Okay, maybe not that bright, but in this case, appropriate..."Your perception is your reality..so its your problem..not mine." ROFL
I should read more careful what I post

*banging his head on the computer*.
 

Questor

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ha ha...good one langeweile. So are you saying there is a typo there? Pray tell, what is it?
 

langeweile

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Sep 21, 2004
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Questor said:
ha ha...good one langeweile. So are you saying there is a typo there? Pray tell, what is it?
No i heard about the issue from other sources. Their numbers were much closer to the end of the next term.
Foolishly I have copied this from factcheck.org without checking.
I have to find the other sourcs and compare numbers.

* slowly pulling out his knife to commit suicide*
 

banshie

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Jan 27, 2003
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Questor said:
OMG! A 32% cut in social security payments by the year 2078, if taxes are not increased and no other changes are made! Hard to figure out why that isn't a top issue in the campaign.
You have explained exactly why it is not a major issue. Neither Bush nor Kerry wants to go near it.
 

feste

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Feb 7, 2003
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GTA
Social Security: The Phony Crisis

The myth of a system collapse
By MARK WEISBROT
Posted: Oct. 16, 2004

Four years ago, my colleague Dean Baker and I wrote “Social Security: The Phony Crisis,� a book that clearly demonstrated there was no financial, economic, actuarial or other reason to be worried about the future of Social Security.

The whole idea that Social Security would run into trouble when the baby boomers retire was an urban legend — and still is.

Among others, The Economist — a conservative British magazine — reviewed the book and agreed. In fact, no one dared challenge what we wrote. How could they? The numbers we used were the same that everyone — including the current campaign of President George W. Bush — uses. They are straight from the Social Security Trustees’ annual report.

We hoped that our book would put an end to all the nonsense about how to “fix� Social Security. And indeed there has been some progress over the last four years. Last March, The New York Times editorial board stated, for the first time, that “those worried that Social Security will not be there for them when they retire are simply mistaken.�

Four years ago, the idea of partially privatizing Social Security had majority support in some polls. This was partly a result of aggressive advocacy on the part of right-wing think tanks and politicians, backed by Wall Street firms that stand to gain tens of billions of dollars from privatization. These people had not only convinced most of the public that they would never see their Social Security benefits, but that they could get more for their money in the stock market.

In our book, we showed that the latter claim was also wrong. We demonstrated arithmetically that the bubble-inflated stock prices at the time were incompatible with any plausible projected rates of growth for profits and the economy. As we predicted, the stock market bubble burst, and with it went a lot of the support for privatizing Social Security.

But the Bush team is still promoting such privatization.

Their proposal has a number of pitfalls: It would add to our federal budget deficit, which is already at a near-record level. It would increase the administrative costs of Social Security enormously, which would subtract from future benefits. It would expose future retirees to the risks of a volatile stock market that is still, by historical measures of price relative to earnings, overvalued.

And it would undermine the political support for America’s largest anti-poverty program by splitting future retirees into two camps: the wealthier ones who would get a large share of their Social Security income from the privatized accounts, and the many others who would not.

This is perhaps the privatizers’ main purpose: Social Security is not a retirement account but a system of social insurance. It is a commitment by society from one generation to another; we all pay in, and we all draw out, because we never know how we will fare in our old age.

The program also provides disability and survivors’ insurance. The idea that “we are all in this together,� on which Social Security is based, has always been unpalatable for those who believe in “every man for himself� and the law of the jungle.

Social Security is currently more financially sound than it has been throughout most of its entire history. To cover any shortfalls that may occur over the next 75 years would require less than we came up with in each of the decades of the 1950s, ’60s, ’70s, or ’80s. All we have to do to save Social Security is to keep the privatizers’ hands off of it.

Mark Weisbrot is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a non-partisan Washington-based think tank.

From the Oct. 17, 2004, editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
 

feste

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Feb 7, 2003
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langeweile said:
Thanks feste,

This is the first time I have seen this side of it.
Vielen dank
I'm glad you found it informative. Weisbrot and Baker work at the Center for Economic and Policy Research http://www.cepr.net/.

Baker writes a weekly review and critique of the business and economics articles appearing in the New York Times and the Washington Post. I find them very informative and educational. There are links to the most recents ones (called Economic Reporting Review or ERR for short) off their home page at http://www.cepr.net/ .
 
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