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How fucked is Trump in dealing with SA?

mandrill

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Bipartisan Senate Foreign Affairs Committee calling for an investigation of the Khashoggi murder. What is Trump going to do?

He bombed Syria. He refused to renegotiate the deal with Iran. His only friend in the ME is SA and now he is being pressured to sanction Prince Mo and his buddies for murdering a journalist and hacking up his body.

If he cuts arms deals to SA, will Putin jump in and "influence" Syria, Iran and SA?


President Donald Trump’s desire to maintain strong ties to Saudi Arabia is facing its biggest test yet: allegations that Riyadh ordered the killing of a dissident Saudi journalist who had been living in the United States.

Calls are mounting for the Trump administration to find out what happened to Jamal Khashoggi. Republicans and Democrats in Congress have taken steps to force a government investigation. Khashoggi’s fiancée has pleaded for Trump to “help shed light on Jamal’s disappearance.” The fury has grown after a Washington Post report that U.S. intelligence knew of Saudi plans to abduct Khashoggi, raising questions about whether the administration failed to warn the journalist.

The White House insists it’s taking the case seriously, with Trump vowing Wednesday to “get to the bottom of it.” But former officials and analysts, including some friendly with Khashoggi, are dismayed by what they say is a milquetoast response so far by the Trump team.

On Tuesday evening, a group of foreign policy figures attended a dinner with a senior White House official with responsibility for the Middle East. The official kept stressing that the U.S. had significant long-term interests in Saudi Arabia and repeatedly noted that Iran is a top threat, several attendees told POLITICO on condition that some of the details about the event be kept private.

When asked about Khashoggi, the official said the U.S. is still trying to get information about what happened, a statement many in the audience found absurd given that Khashoggi disappeared a week earlier and detailed reports had emerged in the media. The official said nothing about the administration being prepared to hold the Saudis accountable for what happened.
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Several foreign policy specialists say the anecdote shows that the Trump administration hopes this crisis will blow over the same way other thorny dilemmas involving Saudi Arabia have in recent years. After all, the White House sees the conservative Muslim country as too important an ally in the Middle East — and in Trump’s anti-Iran strategy — to penalize, or even criticize, in any major way. It’s a hands-off approach critics say has enabled the Saudi leadership’s worst instincts.

When it comes to the mystery surrounding Khashoggi, the administration is “trying to sweep it under the rug,” said Randa Slim, an analyst with the Washington-based Middle East Institute.

Still, Slim and others warned that, if the worst proves true, the Khashoggi case could cause lasting damage to the U.S.-Saudi relationship. For one thing, there is intense anger in Congress, where many lawmakers from both parties were already increasingly uneasy over Saudi actions in places like Yemen, where a Saudi-led coalition battling Iranian-backed rebels stands accused of potential war crimes.

There’s also frustration among reporters and U.S.-based foreign policy analysts, many of whom knew Khashoggi.

For now, the case “doesn't break the U.S.-Saudi relationship,” predicted Gregory Gause, a Saudi expert at Texas A&M University. “What it does is, it makes it even more difficult to get anything through Congress that is seen as pro-Saudi.”

It could get worse, said a D.C.-based Middle East analyst, who requested anonymity to speak frankly: “If the Saudis don’t come up with a credible answer to this, they’re done in this town.”

It’s not yet certain what happened to Khashoggi, who wrote columns for The Washington Post. But media reports have uncovered a growing mound of information indicating he was killed by Saudi operatives while he was visiting u the country’s consulate in Istanbul last week. Saudi officials deny this, saying Khashoggi left the consulate safe and sound.

The latest reports, in Turkish and international media, offer details of how Khashoggi might have been dismembered and identify specific members of a Saudi team alleged to have killed him.

The White House said Wednesday that the powerful Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, had spoken about Khashoggi the previous day with White House national security adviser John Bolton and Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner. Kushner and the crown prince, who is commonly referred to as MBS, are known to be close.

A former administration official told POLITICO that MBS had demanded the call earlier in the week after the top official at the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh asked MBS directly about the Khashoggi case. The crown prince denied any wrongdoing in his conversation with that embassy official, the former official said.

Neither the White House nor the State Department would comment on the Saudi crown prince’s demand or most other aspects of this story. But the former official said the crown prince’s insistence on talking directly to the White House indicates he is hoping to leverage his close ties with Kushner and others in Trump’s inner circle to avoid repercussions.
Jamal Khashoggi

Media
Trump on Khashoggi's disappearance: 'We'll get to the bottom of it'

By MATTHEW CHOI

The Post reported Tuesday night that prior to Khashoggi’s disappearance, U.S. intelligence officials had intercepted discussions among Saudi officials about capturing him. Citing unnamed sources, the Post said the plan was to lure Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia and grab him there.

It’s also not clear whether U.S. officials warned Khashoggi of any danger, but under standard rules, they have a “duty to warn” if a threat is credible, said Ned Price, a former CIA officer and top Obama administration official. “What we do know is Khashoggi entered the Saudi consulate,” Price said. “And the fact that he did that leads one to believe that he was not fearful of an imminent Saudi threat.”

A State Department spokesman said Wednesday the U.S. had “no advance knowledge of Jamal Khashoggi's disappearance.”

The United States and Saudi Arabia have been close allies for decades; even after it was revealed that 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis, the relationship did not collapse. Saudi Arabia is a major oil producer and purchaser of U.S. weapons, both priorities for Trump. Saudi Arabia has also endeared itself to the Trump administration with its vocal condemnations of the Iranian regime.

In return, the Trump administration has done more than many U.S. administrations to nurture its relationship with the Saudis — the president even made Saudi Arabia the first foreign country he visited.

Just weeks ago, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo issued a certification that allowed the U.S. to keep supporting Saudi Arabia’s side in its fight against Iranian-backed rebels in Yemen, despite growing allegations that the Saudis are carelessly killing civilians in the conflict. Pompeo’s decision, which diplomats privately say was driven in part by his determination to keep up the joint U.S.-Saudi pressure on Iran, has deeply upset a growing number of lawmakers. Bipartisan efforts to restrict the U.S. role in Yemen have been gaining support on Capitol Hill.

Under the 30-something MBS, who was named crown prince in 2017, Saudi Arabia has instituted some reforms that Western leaders had hoped would lead to more social and economic freedoms for Saudis, especially women. The crown prince led the initiative to allow women to drive in Saudi Arabia, for instance.

At the same time, MBS appears highly sensitive to criticism. He has imprisoned a handful of female activists, including some who wanted the driving ban lifted. He also severely curtailed diplomatic relations with Canada after Canadian officials called for the women to be freed.

The Trump administration has been muted in its criticism of Saudi Arabia on the women’s detentions and Riyadh’s response to Canada. In contrast, the administration rarely misses an opportunity to criticize Iran for various human rights violations, including its imprisonment of dissidents.

“The question is, ‘What message has the leadership of Saudi Arabia received from the United States about what does or does not cross a line for us?’” said Jeffrey Prescott, a senior Middle East aide to former President Barack Obama, who had a tense relationship with Riyadh.
Nobel Prize winner Tawakkol Karman protests the disappearance of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

Media
‘I know nothing’: Trump’s stance toward missing Saudi journalist sparks concern

By JASON SCHWARTZ

As Saudi dissidents go, Khashoggi — who long mingled with the Saudi elite — was fairly moderate, at times defending the crown prince. Many in the U.S. foreign policy community turned to him for an inside read of the kingdom. But in more recent months, Khashoggi had raised concerns about the repressive tactics used by MBS. He felt endangered enough that he decided to live in self-imposed exile in the Washington area.

In the wake of Khashoggi’s disappearance, 22 senators — including 11 Republicans — sent a letter to Trump on Wednesday, triggering a law that will force the Trump administration to investigate the situation. The law, the Global Magnitsky Human Rights Accountability Act, allows Congress to order an investigation into a possible extrajudicial killings or human rights violations against those exercising freedom of expression.

If the investigation finds that the Saudi government is responsible for harming Khashoggi, it could trigger sanctions against the people involved.

Sen. Bob Corker, the Republican chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was among the signatories. He demurred when asked Wednesday if Trump had responded strongly enough to the Khashoggi case. But he noted: “There are actions that we can take unilaterally in this particular case, and for that reason there’s really not a need for me to talk to the administration.”

It’s possible the Trump administration will take some small steps on its own to chide the Saudis, said Gause, the Saudi expert. It could delay an arms shipment, for instance, or temporarily downgrade its support for the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen. But Gause and others said it’s unlikely the administration will impose any major, long-lasting punishment.

Statements so far from Pompeo, Vice President Mike Pence and other U.S. officials have pressed the Saudis to share their side. To some analysts, it appears the administration is trying to give the Saudis room to come up with an explanation — a rogue operative, an interrogation gone wrong or something plausible — that can be used to tone down the international anger.

If the Saudis can’t come up with a believable cover story, the outrage won’t blow over anytime soon, Gause said. Lawmakers and the foreign policy community won’t let it go, he said. Reporters, too, will likely keep digging.

“These people knew Jamal — he was a known quantity,” Gause said, noting that he himself knew Khashoggi. “He wasn’t a threat to anybody.”

Elana Schor and Martin Matishak contributed to this report.


https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/10/trump-saudis-journalist-disappearance-890411
 

mandrill

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Eighteen months ago, Donald Trump visited Saudi Arabia and said he had concluded $110 billion dollars in arms sales with the kingdom. It was fake news then and it’s still fake news today. The Saudis have not concluded a single major arms deal with Washington on Trump’s watch. Nonetheless, the U.S. arms relationship with the kingdom is the most important leverage Washington has as it contemplates reacting to the alleged murder of Jamal Khashoggi.



Follow the Money

In June 2017, after the president’s visit to Riyadh—his first official foreign travel—we published a Brookings blog post detailing that his claims to have sold $110 billion in weapons were spurious. Other media outlets subsequently came to the same conclusion. When Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman visited the White House this year, the president indirectly confirmed that non-deal by chiding the prince for spending only “peanuts” on arms from America.

The Saudis have continued to buy spare parts, munitions, and technical support for the enormous amount of American equipment they have bought from previous administrations. The Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) is entirely dependent on American and British support for its air fleet of F-15 fighter jets, Apache helicopters, and Tornado aircraft. If either Washington or London halts the flow of logistics, the RSAF will be grounded. The Saudi army and the Saudi Arabian National Guard are similarly dependent on foreigners (the Saudi Arabian National Guard is heavily dependent on Canada). The same is also true for the Saudis’ allies like Bahrain.

Under President Obama, Saudi Arabia spent well over $110 billion in U.S. weapons, including for aircraft, helicopters, and air-defense missiles. These deals were the largest in American history. Saudi commentators routinely decried Obama for failing to protect Saudi interests, but the kingdom loved his arms deals.

But the kingdom has not bought any new arms platform during the Trump administration. Only one has even been seriously discussed: A $15 billion deal for THAAD, terminal high-altitude area-defense missiles, has gotten the most attention and preliminary approval from Congress, but the Saudis let pass a September deadline for the deal with Lockheed Martin. The Saudis certainly need more air defenses with the pro-Iran Zaydi Shiite Houthi rebels in Yemen firing ballistic missiles at Saudi cities.

The three-and-a-half-year-old Saudi war in Yemen is hugely expensive. There are no public figures from the Saudi government about the war’s costs, but a conservative estimate would be at least $50 billion per year. Maintenance costs for aircraft and warships go up dramatically when they are constantly in combat operations. The Royal Saudi Navy has been blockading Yemen for over 40 months. The RSAF has conducted thousands of air strikes. The war is draining the kingdom’s coffers. And responsibility for the war is on Mohammed bin Salman, who as defense minister has driven Riyadh into this quagmire. Shaking the arms relationship is by far the most important way to clip his wings.



Avenging Khashoggi

Congress now has the power to make a serious decision, halting arms sales and the logistics train for the kingdom in the wake of the reported murder of Saudi critic Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, Turkey last week. The outrageous attack on Jamal deserves serious reaction, and given Trump’s dereliction of duty on the matter, it is up to Congress to act. The president may try to override a Senate arms stand-down but it would be a painful setback for the prince.

Jamal’s last opinion piece before his death was about the war in Yemen. He called for an immediate Saudi ceasefire and blamed the war on Mohammed bin Salman. At stake, Jamal argued, is Saudi “dignity” and its role as a leader in the Islamic world. It has rightly been seen as an ineffectual bully. Saudi Arabia’s war is alienating people around the world. Across the Muslim world, the Saudi brand has been damaged. Khashoggi compared Mohammed bin Salman to Syrian President Bashar Assad as a war criminal. His death only further darkens Mohammed bin Salman’s standing. Much of the world is likely to treat him and his henchmen as pariahs.

The prince’s goal in Istanbul was to intimidate any opposition or criticism, no matter how peaceful. The more blatant and gruesome the intimidation, the more likely it will chill dissent. But it will also polarize the country and encourage the deep conspiracies that could violently and suddenly change the kingdom in very unexpected ways. These are very dangerous waters for the House of Saud.


https://www.lawfareblog.com/after-khashoggi-us-arms-sales-saudis-are-essential-leverage
 

Aardvark154

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It’s possible the Trump administration will take some small steps on its own to chide the Saudis, said Gause, the Saudi expert. It could delay an arms shipment, for instance, or temporarily downgrade its support for the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen. But Gause and others said it’s unlikely the administration will impose any major, long-lasting punishment.
Suspect this is what will happen. The Senate has the luxury of being able to get all steamed up over matters such as this without having to worry about the real world of international relations -- politico-military affairs the way the Administration (any administration that isn't just a disaster) has to.
 

Frankfooter

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Suspect this is what will happen. The Senate has the luxury of being able to get all steamed up over matters such as this without having to worry about the real world of international relations -- politico-military affairs the way the Administration (any administration that isn't just a disaster) has to.
The problem is that Trump likes despots like MBS and is willing to back them.
Same as Putin, same as North Korea.

He won't step down.
 

bver_hunter

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Donald Trump Has a Serious Saudi Arabian Conflict of Interest:

At a 2015 campaign stop, Trump bragged to the crowd about his business dealings with the Saudis. “Saudi Arabia, I get along with all of them,” Trump said. “They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much.”

In 2001, the Saudi government bought the 45th floor of the Trump World Plaza building in New York City as part of its mission to the United Nations. And shortly before entering the White House, Trump was aggressively pursuing deals with Saudi investors and attempting to build hotels in the Saudi Arabia. In August 2015, in the middle of his presidential run, Trump registered new corporations to manage a prospective hotel in Jeddah, the gateway city to the Muslim holy sites of Mecca and Medina. That project never came to fruition, but the Washington Post reported that at least two of Trump’s US hotel properties—both called the Trump International Hotel & Tower, in New York and Chicago—have benefited hugely from Saudi business.

At Trump’s New York hotel, room revenue declined for two straight years after Trump launched his presidential bid but saw a 13 percent boost during the first three months of 2018. The reason, according to hotel management, was SaudiPrince Mohammed bin Salman’s visit to New York City in March. The crown prince, who is known as M.B.S. and is said to wield most of the power in the Saudi government, didn’t stay at the Trump hotel (the rooms are apparently not big enough), but members of his entourage did, and that was enough to give a last-minute shine to the hotel’s quarterly finances. Trump’s Chicago hotel, meanwhile, has seen a 169 percent increase in visits from Saudis since 2016.


https://www.motherjones.com/politic...a-serious-saudi-arabian-conflict-of-interest/
 

onthebottom

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Your not expecting Canada to take another leadership position here?

How is this different than Europe buying Russian NG while they assasinate Russians in the UK?

I would expect much outrage and little action, worldwide.
 

mandrill

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Your not expecting Canada to take another leadership position here?

How is this different than Europe buying Russian NG while they assasinate Russians in the UK?

I would expect much outrage and little action, worldwide.

The Brits seem to be making quite a fuss about the Salisbury assassinations though. While Trump won't touch the Khashoggi killing, even to the extent of scolding P-Mo a little. Sad..... In fact, very sad.

Maybe Trump and P-Mo joke about it on the phone while they discuss financing for Trump's new hotel properties in SA.

Weren't you the boy who was mocking Justin a while back and doing your usual "USA is great" rooster swagger? IIRC, you were telling us how the US and Trump had the moral authority to keep SA and P-Mo in line while Justin should just butt out? Looks like you were right on target with that - not. As usual. In fact, Trump is doing exactly what you suggested a 2-bit player like Justin should do - lube up and drop his pants.
 

danmand

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Maybe Trump and P-Mo joke about it on the phone while they discuss financing for Trump's new hotel properties in SA.
He is reserving his outrage for a pastor that is held in house arrest in Turkey. The Turks will not finance a hotel in Ankara.
 

mandrill

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He is reserving his outrage for a pastor that is held in house arrest in Turkey. The Turks will not finance a hotel in Ankara.

I think in fact that Trump is too emotionally drained by own his tantrums after the "unfair way Brett Kavanaugh was treated" and needs a few golfing holidays before he can find the strength to denounce P-Mo. Maybe P-Mo can offer him a golf vacation together, so they can discuss the issue in a friendly way over golf, hookers and jokes at P-Mo's own, exclusive golf club.
 

danmand

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I think in fact that Trump is too emotionally drained by own his tantrums after the "unfair way Brett Kavanaugh was treated" and needs a few golfing holidays before he can find the strength to denounce P-Mo. Maybe P-Mo can offer him a golf vacation together, so they can discuss the issue in a friendly way over golf, hookers and jokes at P-Mo's own, exclusive golf club.
Melania must be back from her excursion to Kenya(!!) in full colonial attire.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...elania-trump-africa-wardrobe-pith-helmet-nazi

 

onthebottom

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The guy wasn’t an American.

If he was killed he wasn’t killed in the US.

Why do you assume this is a US issue more than any other country?

Are you outraged at the Euroweenies importing Russian gas while Putin assisnates people in Europe? Danmand had his Pom poms out for the gas pipeline.

Your outrage is manufactured and transparent.
 

onthebottom

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bver_hunter

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She does look good, that must piss of the left deep down given the dog kennel they have....
Nothing to do with the "lefties". Looks like she is more relaxed being away from her moron of a husband. She may have got something more exciting out of that security gal behind her.
 

danmand

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She does look good, that must piss of the left deep down given the dog kennel they have....
Not nearly as much as it pissed off the Africans.
 

danmand

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Nothing to do with the "lefties". Looks like she is more relaxed being away from her moron of a husband. She may have got something more exciting out of that security gal behind her.
I imagine she used to opportunity to get laid by somebody with a normal looking and dare I say big dick.
 

mandrill

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The guy wasn’t an American.

If he was killed he wasn’t killed in the US.

Why do you assume this is a US issue more than any other country?

Are you outraged at the Euroweenies importing Russian gas while Putin assisnates people in Europe? Danmand had his Pom poms out for the gas pipeline.

Your outrage is manufactured and transparent.

OTB, you were the very dude who told us that Justin wasn't important enough to take on Prince Mo and that only Trump and the US could put P-Mo in his place. Brave words indeed! Trump flinches and cringes when dealing with the Saudis. If he pisses them off, they will never let him build a hotel there - ever. In short...

Justin isn't a big enough player to take on Prince Mo; but Trump isn't a big enough MAN to take on Prince Mo.
 
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