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The F-35, Just Attacked One of World’s Most Primitive Fighters, the Taliban

danmand

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Battle for the Ages: Priciest US Weapon, the F-35, Just Attacked One of World’s Most Primitive Fighters, the Taliban
by DAVE LINDORFF

Why did the US military have a vertical-take-off F-35B launched from an aircraft carrier in the Indian Ocean make an attack on a Taliban position in Afghanistan?

Nobody’s mentioning several things about this Pentagon-touted first-ever US military “combat use” of the most expensive and supposedly sophisticated fighter-bomber ever produced at a current price of over $115 million per plane for the B model.

The first point is why it happened at all. The plane is not actually meant to be a ground attack aircraft. Designed as a fighter to fly at Mach 1.6 speed and to be invisible to enemy radar, which of course the Taliban fighters (whose top speed is a few miles per hour) in Afghanistan don’t even have, it is meant to be a sixth-generation fighter intended to assure US forces of air superiority against an advanced enemy with similar planes. The Taliban of course have zero planes or even anti-aircraft weapons. They are about as primitive an enemy as the US has ever confronted since the days of Gen. Armstrong Custer (who as we know had problems even then). As Pentagon critic Chuck Spinney notes, “This attack on the Taliban could have been much better handled by an A-10 Warthog ground attack plane.”

The particular model B version of the F-35 used in this particular attack was specifically designed to suit requirements of the US Marine Corps, which wanted a jet that could take off and land vertically, presumably to be able to support Marine forces by operating from a small clearing in the jungle, on a beach, or on a small section of road or parking lot. Doing that, as opposed to taking off from a runway, burns through an inordinate amount of jet fuel so unless the plane is refueled in the air, it cannot fly very far or carry much ordnance, or both, but loading up on fuel in flight makes both the plane and the lumbering aerial tanker vulnerable to attack, which makes a joke of the stealth aspect of the plane.

Worse yet, Spinney says that the exhaust from the F-35B’s powerful jet engines, necessary to lift its entire weight off the ground, is so hot that it “explodes concrete.” He says it cannot simply land or take off on a beach, a favorite traditional Marine location, or on the ground in a clearing.

Because of this ill-thought-out complication, he says the Pentagon and its contractor, Lockheed Martin, have developed a 100-foot-diameter ceramic pad that has to accompany the plant to be set down on such locations where it operates from, in order for the F-35B to safely make any vertical take-off or landing (VTOL) maneuver. “The only place I know of that they have any of those ceramic pads,” he laughs, “is in a test site near Yuma, Arizona. I don’t know how they plan to deliver them in battle to sites in the jungle.”

Spinney says that since the F-35B would ruin the tarmac of any ordinary military airstrip, the only place it can actually do a VTOL maneuver is on an aircraft carrier, but even then, he says, special measures have to be taken so that the ship’s metal deck doesn’t get melted and damaged.

So why did the Pentagon pull this stunt of sending into actual battle a plane that is actually still in development and not ready for prime time?

“It’s budget time,” says a chuckling Spinney. “The 2019 fiscal year budget was just signed by the President, so now the Pentagon’s gearing up to present its FY 2020 budget proposal to Congress.”

It’s a budget that will set a spending record and the Pentagon will as part of the process will have to explain the latest costs of its unprecedentedly expensive F-35 Joint Strike Force fighter, which already at almost $1.5 trillion dollars, has made it the most expensive weapon ever produced by mankind. Congress will also have to deal with the fact that the Air Force has discovered that the costs of operation and maintenance of its new toy are rising so rapidly, according to Lockheed Martin, that this main customer for the plane is considering having to slash its order by a third.

One of the things the Pentagon will have to explain is why they took such a high-performance plan and, at great cost, added weapons like rockets with fragmentation warheads to it to make it capable of ground-attack missions for which it is uniquely unsuited, the real reason of course being that it doesn’t really have any enemies it is likely to confront in the sky so they have to give it something else to do — like this initial mission against the Taliban.

That, of course, is an old story with the Pentagon. As cost overruns on deliberately under-estimated new projects inevitably mount — generally as with the F-35, after a new weapon has been pushed prematurely into production and after deliveries of problematic units have already begun, making it too late to cancel but far costlier to retrofix — the Pentagon responds by cutting back on the number of units ordered. But since these programs are all written on a cost-plus basis, reducing orders just means the Pentagon pays the same price, but get fewer planes for its (our) money.

So now the Pentagon is going all out to promote its epic trillion-dollar boondoggle. What better way to do that than to send one of the planes into battle and get some exciting video footage for an ever-enthusiastic national news media?

They’ll have to work hard at the publicity campaign though. Within a day of this glorious battle sortie in Afghanistan, another F-35B crashed in South Carolina destroying the $115 million aircraft. The pilot, we’re told, safely ejected from this first reported total loss of an F-35, and is being examined in a hospital for injuries.
 

oldjones

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As if the people who live there will love you more, because the planes you bomb them with, from above the clouds, are the latest and greatest. But even if he's not a very nice person, they will make friends with the guy who carries the AK47, and lives just next door.
 

Aardvark154

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Let us start with the fact that the F-35 was designed to be a fighter-bomber not an air superiority fighter.

Then we have the fact that the RAF, RN and USMC have all used various models of the Harrier vertical take off fighter bomber in combat.

About the only truly accurate part of the article is that using an A-10 would have been more efficient.
 

oldjones

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Let us start with the fact that the F-35 was designed to be a fighter-bomber not an air superiority fighter.

Then we have the fact that the RAF, RN and USMC have all used various models of the Harrier vertical take off fighter bomber in combat.

About the only truly accurate part of the article is that using an A-10 would have been more efficient.
Or squadrons of Cessnas filling the skies for the same price.
 

Aardvark154

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Or squadrons of Cessnas filling the skies for the same price.
Of course the fallacy with this is you can use state of the art aircraft to bomb targets in Afghanistan you can not use Cessnas if a shooting war starts in East Asia or Eastern Europe.
 

onthebottom

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Perhaps they were testing the ground-air collaboration which is one of the features of the program.

F35 is a fighter-bomber (like the F18), clearly the Marines like a ground support aircraft that can be based on land or sea. The STOVAL variety allows the US to field lower cost aircraft carriers (Wasp) than the Ford class that can carry rotor aircraft (helo and osprey) and F35B
 

oldjones

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Of course the fallacy with this is you can use state of the art aircraft to bomb targets in Afghanistan you can not use Cessnas if a shooting war starts in East Asia or Eastern Europe.
Nothing against Cessnas, and aircraft like them have a place in any war anywhere, but the Taliban have no air arm, and limited anti-air capability. So the stuff that makes high-tech jets useful is wasted. As is their cost and the huge logistical tail they drag around.

Not to mention that an accident or a few lucky AK rounds can be just as fatal to them, as an enemy jet. If there were enemy jets.
 

danmand

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You all miss the important point implied in the article.

USA has hundreds of $ 110M n'th generation fighter jets operating over Afghanistan from $ 2B aircraft carriers.

Taliban fighters with $50 Kalashnikovs are winning.
 

nottyboi

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I assume they are testing the new shiny toy. These planes cost money regardless if you use them or not. If the F-35B pilot needs the hours to remain current, then the F-35 gets the call. That is partly the problem with the MIC, once you build the warfighting capacity, you MUST use it, weapons have self lives so either a) pay for costly decomm, or b) drop them on someone unfriendly. Why do you think the US is firing salvos of Tomahawks? They are actually quite useless in todays world so they fire a ton of Tomahawks that get ECMed, and a couple of JASSM to really get the job done.
 

Promo

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You all miss the important point implied in the article.

USA has hundreds of $ 110M n'th generation fighter jets operating over Afghanistan from $ 2B aircraft carriers.

Taliban fighters with $50 Kalashnikovs are winning.
Where does it say that? Regardless, aircraft don't finish wars, soldiers on the ground do.

Much of the article above is based on false information as others have already pointed out. I checked into the high-heat jet exhaust statement as I've not read about it before and it's true! Ships that support the jet are equipped with shielded deck areas for VTOL operations and pads are provided for tarmac runways. No big deal, but certainly an interesting fact. The technology is amazing.

Why would the US not use their F-35s? Good chance to work out bugs is a low threat environment.
 
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mandrill

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May as well seize the day. Word is that the Afghan central government is slowly but steadily collapsing and the "Are you sick of winning? / Make America great again" crew are shitting themselves to cut a deal with the Tallies at any price before everybody's standing on the roof of the American embassy waiting for the choppers to come and take them home.
 

Promo

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I assume they are testing the new shiny toy. These planes cost money regardless if you use them or not. If the F-35B pilot needs the hours to remain current, then the F-35 gets the call. That is partly the problem with the MIC, once you build the warfighting capacity, you MUST use it, weapons have self lives so either a) pay for costly decomm, or b) drop them on someone unfriendly. Why do you think the US is firing salvos of Tomahawks? They are actually quite useless in todays world so they fire a ton of Tomahawks that get ECMed, and a couple of JASSM to really get the job done.
The British Navy are no longer buying Harpoons and Tomahawks without a current replacement because they are pretty much obsolete. Sure, they would be effective against the Argentine armed forces, but no major power. Too slow. No ECM or ECM countermeasure capabilities. No datalink capabilities. Can't fly indirect routes to target. Poor maneuverability. Limited radar seeking capabilities.
https://www.naval-technology.com/features/featuresecuring-the-royal-navys-future-firepower-5805889/
 

Frankfooter

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I assume they are testing the new shiny toy. These planes cost money regardless if you use them or not. If the F-35B pilot needs the hours to remain current, then the F-35 gets the call. That is partly the problem with the MIC, once you build the warfighting capacity, you MUST use it, weapons have self lives so either a) pay for costly decomm, or b) drop them on someone unfriendly. Why do you think the US is firing salvos of Tomahawks? They are actually quite useless in todays world so they fire a ton of Tomahawks that get ECMed, and a couple of JASSM to really get the job done.
The big question is whether the Taliban somehow get access to new missiles from Russia, who might be interested in also testing those F-35B's.
 

Promo

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The big question is whether the Taliban somehow get access to new missiles from Russia, who might be interested in also testing those F-35B's.
Not sure the Russians would even consider providing the Taliban their leading edge weapon systems. ;-)

Regardless, the F-35 is designed to operate and the pilots trained to fly in that kind of threat environment. US AWACS will be monitoring for the radar emissions and EW aircraft will be prepared to jam and attack. The US air force doesn't mess around, they use layered defenses for combat zones.
 

oldjones

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You all miss the important point implied in the article.

USA has hundreds of $ 110M n'th generation fighter jets operating over Afghanistan from $ 2B aircraft carriers.

Taliban fighters with $50 Kalashnikovs are winning.
I don't think we've missed it. You don't win any war from thousands of feet up. You only win when you're walking around on the ground without fear.

Tech-talk about shiny new toys is way more fun than repeating what was old hat before the first legions marched out from Rome.
 

nottyboi

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You all miss the important point implied in the article.

USA has hundreds of $ 110M n'th generation fighter jets operating over Afghanistan from $ 2B aircraft carriers.

Taliban fighters with $50 Kalashnikovs are winning.
It was a lesson framed in Vietnam. The US has not won a major war since WWII. They can have all the parades they want, but they cannot really even decisively subdue Iraq, yet they wanna take on Iran which is 100x more powerful? retarded.
 

nottyboi

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I don't think we've missed it. You don't win any war from thousands of feet up. You only win when you're walking around on the ground without fear.

Tech-talk about shiny new toys is way more fun than repeating what was old hat before the first legions marched out from Rome.
Thing is, they have not been able to walk on the ground of conqued land without fear since when? Been a loooooong time. (other then some minor regional conflicts.)
 

oldjones

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Thing is, they have not been able to walk on the ground of conqued land without fear since when? Been a loooooong time. (other then some minor regional conflicts.)
'Cause the first moment they set foot there, they've been eager and anxious to leave. Since WWII — with maybe a faintly possible exception for Korea — the US has never fought a war where winning included them sticking it out with the locals.

If you don't plan on staying, you'd better ally with someone who will instead of insisting on calling the shots, and making an enemy of every side.
 

nottyboi

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'Cause the first moment they set foot there, they've been eager and anxious to leave. Since WWII — with maybe a faintly possible exception for Korea — the US has never fought a war where winning included them sticking it out with the locals.

If you don't plan on staying, you'd better ally with someone who will instead of insisting on calling the shots, and making an enemy of every side.
Its not that simple, they have been at it for 9 years in Afghanistan and never really were able to control it. They never even were really able to control Iraq fully with a LOT of boots on the ground. Vietnam they went all in and failed. Korea, could not defeat the Chinese, Somalia, were kicked out by armed gangs. ..etc etc etc.
 

onthebottom

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It’s not a military problem it’s a shithole problem.
 
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