Doug Ford Just Cancelled Ontario’s Minimum Wage Increase. Low-Wage Workers Are Out 2k

Charlemagne · Sep 26, 2018

Doug Ford Just Cancelled Ontario’s Minimum Wage Increase. Low-Wage Workers Are Out $2,000 Per Year.

It’s official: low-wage workers in Ontario are losing their two thousand dollar raise

September 26, 2018

Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s government has announced it is cancelling the province’s planned minimum wage increase to $15 per hour.

During a press conference Wednesday, Ford’s Labour Minister Laurie Scott was asked directly by reporters what a minimum wage employee in Ontario will earn as of January 1, 2019.

“The minimum wage is going to be paused at $14 an hour,” Scott said.

Although reporters noted this year’s minimum wage increase did not cause job losses in the service sector or other low-wage industries, Ford’s labour minister insisted the minimum wage increase has “hurt job creation in the province.”

Ford’s move to scrap the minimum wage increase means Ontario’s low-wage workers will see nearly two thousand dollars less in their pockets ($1,899) next year than they would have had the $15 minimum wage increase gone through as planned.

Scott attempted to argue that scrapping the minimum wage raise would be offset by a tax credit aimed at low-wage workers, although Scott could not say when the tax credit would actually be rolled out.

However, economists point out Ford’s tax credit, if it ever happens, actually leave low-wage workers with a one thousand dollar hole in their pockets.

According to an analysis by economist Sheila Block, Ford’s tax credit would only save low-wage workers $817 a year, which does not come close to offsetting the loss of $1,899 raise by clawing back the minimum wage.

In other words, even if Ford balances out the minimum wage cut with a tax credit, low-wage workers still lose out a staggering $1,082 per year.

https://pressprogress.ca/doug-ford-just-cancelled-ontarios-minimum-wage-increase-low-wage-workers-are-out-2000-per-year/

Ref · Sep 26, 2018

What type of strategy or ideas are you toying with to make up for your lost income?

mandrill · Sep 26, 2018

Ref said:
What type of strategy or ideas are you toying with to make up for your lost income?

Ref, do you ever try and read your own sentences? You have to be the most clumsy and inept writer I have read for quite a while.

Boober69 · Sep 26, 2018

Charlemagne said:
Doug Ford Just Cancelled Ontario’s Minimum Wage Increase. Low-Wage Workers Are Out $2,000 Per Year.

It’s official: low-wage workers in Ontario are losing their two thousand dollar raise

September 26, 2018

Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s government has announced it is cancelling the province’s planned minimum wage increase to $15 per hour.

During a press conference Wednesday, Ford’s Labour Minister Laurie Scott was asked directly by reporters what a minimum wage employee in Ontario will earn as of January 1, 2019.

“The minimum wage is going to be paused at $14 an hour,” Scott said.

Although reporters noted this year’s minimum wage increase did not cause job losses in the service sector or other low-wage industries, Ford’s labour minister insisted the minimum wage increase has “hurt job creation in the province.”

Ford’s move to scrap the minimum wage increase means Ontario’s low-wage workers will see nearly two thousand dollars less in their pockets ($1,899) next year than they would have had the $15 minimum wage increase gone through as planned.

Scott attempted to argue that scrapping the minimum wage raise would be offset by a tax credit aimed at low-wage workers, although Scott could not say when the tax credit would actually be rolled out.

However, economists point out Ford’s tax credit, if it ever happens, actually leave low-wage workers with a one thousand dollar hole in their pockets.

According to an analysis by economist Sheila Block, Ford’s tax credit would only save low-wage workers $817 a year, which does not come close to offsetting the loss of $1,899 raise by clawing back the minimum wage.

In other words, even if Ford balances out the minimum wage cut with a tax credit, low-wage workers still lose out a staggering $1,082 per year.

https://pressprogress.ca/doug-ford-just-cancelled-ontarios-minimum-wage-increase-low-wage-workers-are-out-2000-per-year/

Promise made, promise kept.
Next...

Ref · Sep 26, 2018

oagre said:
Ref, do you ever try and read your own sentences? You have to be the most clumsy and inept writer I have read for quite a while.

Lol! If you only knew, but thanks for the confirmation.

kkelso · Sep 26, 2018

Ref said:
What type of strategy or ideas are you toying with to make up for your lost income?

I've had a tough day. Thank you for this.

oldjones · Sep 27, 2018

Noting that lower incomes certainly mean lower sales tax and possibly lower income tax revenues for the Province that is already in a huge deficit hole, and cutting revenue, just who is this 'pause' benefiting? As the OP's post says "…this year’s minimum wage increase did not cause job losses in the service sector or other low-wage industries,", and it's not like it will lower prices or make businesses more competitive.

And it certainly isn't going to help pay for all that infrastructure and transit that Dougie's promised. And all without service cuts too — although that promise of 'same old same old' just amounts to more of the same crappy, under-funded road-paving, healthcare and such we're used to.

onthebottom · Sep 27, 2018

oldjones said:
Noting that lower incomes certainly mean lower sales tax and possibly lower income tax revenues for the Province that is already in a huge deficit hole, and cutting revenue, just who is this 'pause' benefiting? As the OP's post says "…this year’s minimum wage increase did not cause job losses in the service sector or other low-wage industries,", and it's not like it will lower prices or make businesses more competitive.

And it certainly isn't going to help pay for all that infrastructure and transit that Dougie's promised. And all without service cuts too — although that promise of 'same old same old' just amounts to more of the same crappy, under-funded road-paving, healthcare and such we're used to.

Or small business keeps that money, pays taxes on it as profit at a higher rate than minimum wage workers (what’s the tax rate for someone making $15/hr?). Another scenario is that business hires another worker with that money, and after the August Ontario employment stats, that’s not a bad answer either.

oldjones · Sep 27, 2018

onthebottom said:
Or small business keeps that money, pays taxes on it as profit at a higher rate than minimum wage workers (what’s the tax rate for someone making $15/hr?). Another scenario is that business hires another worker with that money, and after the August Ontario employment stats, that’s not a bad answer either.

Gotta have the new customers for those cheap low-wage products and services if you're gonna expand your work-force. And Ontario's corporate tax-rates are already very low, simply cancelling a pay-raise that hasn't happened won't increase revenues. Making employers pay out some of those existing profits to folks who will at least pay sales-tax on every dollar of it will. So will any small price-hikes they may need to stay in business.

The economy's a merry-go-round; it's way more fun if everybody's riding it than it is when only a few folks can buy seats and everyone else just gets to watch.

onthebottom · Sep 27, 2018

oldjones said:
Gotta have the new customers for those cheap low-wage products and services if you're gonna expand your work-force. And Ontario's corporate tax-rates are already very low, simply cancelling a pay-raise that hasn't happened won't increase revenues. Making employers pay out some of those existing profits to folks who will at least pay sales-tax on every dollar of it will. So will any small price-hikes they may need to stay in business.

The economy's a merry-go-round; it's way more fun if everybody's riding it than it is when only a few folks can buy seats and everyone else just gets to watch.

More walkers in Ontario in August.

A dollar will either be payed out to the same workers (higher pay), profit or pay another worker. I’m not sure there is much tax advantage to the first instance.

oldjones · Sep 27, 2018

onthebottom said:
More walkers in Ontario in August.

A dollar will either be payed out to the same workers (higher pay), profit or pay another worker. I’m not sure there is much tax advantage to the first instance.

It's always the same dollar, and the trick is always figuring out where it should go best. But so far the evidence is spreading them around beats a few folks hanging onto them.

Figure out how to legislate those new hires the way we can legislate pay rates and I'll agree it's a saw-off.

K Douglas · Sep 27, 2018

Support the decision. I would have preferred it get rolled back to $11.60 where it was at Dec 31, 2017.

Bud Plug · Sep 27, 2018

Video game sales may not hit targets. You may want to dump some of your Electronic Arts shares.

onthebottom · Sep 27, 2018

oldjones said:
It's always the same dollar, and the trick is always figuring out where it should go best. But so far the evidence is spreading them around beats a few folks hanging onto them.

Figure out how to legislate those new hires the way we can legislate pay rates and I'll agree it's a saw-off.

Maybe letting the person who earns it decide what to do with it is the way to go vs an arbitrary price for labor.

bver_hunter · Sep 27, 2018

Charlemagne said:
Doug Ford Just Cancelled Ontario’s Minimum Wage Increase. Low-Wage Workers Are Out $2,000 Per Year.

It’s official: low-wage workers in Ontario are losing their two thousand dollar raise

September 26, 2018

Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s government has announced it is cancelling the province’s planned minimum wage increase to $15 per hour.

During a press conference Wednesday, Ford’s Labour Minister Laurie Scott was asked directly by reporters what a minimum wage employee in Ontario will earn as of January 1, 2019.

“The minimum wage is going to be paused at $14 an hour,” Scott said.

Although reporters noted this year’s minimum wage increase did not cause job losses in the service sector or other low-wage industries, Ford’s labour minister insisted the minimum wage increase has “hurt job creation in the province.”

Ford’s move to scrap the minimum wage increase means Ontario’s low-wage workers will see nearly two thousand dollars less in their pockets ($1,899) next year than they would have had the $15 minimum wage increase gone through as planned.

Scott attempted to argue that scrapping the minimum wage raise would be offset by a tax credit aimed at low-wage workers, although Scott could not say when the tax credit would actually be rolled out.

However, economists point out Ford’s tax credit, if it ever happens, actually leave low-wage workers with a one thousand dollar hole in their pockets.

According to an analysis by economist Sheila Block, Ford’s tax credit would only save low-wage workers $817 a year, which does not come close to offsetting the loss of $1,899 raise by clawing back the minimum wage.

In other words, even if Ford balances out the minimum wage cut with a tax credit, low-wage workers still lose out a staggering $1,082 per year.

https://pressprogress.ca/doug-ford-just-cancelled-ontarios-minimum-wage-increase-low-wage-workers-are-out-2000-per-year/

That is how Dum and Dumber DOFO will put "MORE" money in the pockets of Ontarians.

oldjones · Sep 27, 2018

onthebottom said:
Maybe letting the person who earns it decide what to do with it is the way to go vs an arbitrary price for labor.

The folks who work for, and earn minimum wage would certainly tell you that it's far from arbitrary, and resist anyone telling them what to do with it. Beyond paying taxes, debts, contracted obligations to others, the necessities of life for their kids, …, …, . Civilized life is full of people telling us what to do, at our expense. It's still better than the alternative.

Perhaps you'd like to make whatever your point is, just a tad clearer. It would also be polite not to entirely ignore mine above, as this first effort seems to.

onthebottom · Sep 27, 2018

oldjones said:
The folks who work for, and earn minimum wage would certainly tell you that it's far from arbitrary, and resist anyone telling them what to do with it. Beyond paying taxes, debts, contracted obligations to others, the necessities of life for their kids, …, …, . Civilized life is full of people telling us what to do, at our expense. It's still better than the alternative.

Perhaps you'd like to make whatever your point is, just a tad clearer. It would also be polite not to entirely ignore mine above, as this first effort seems to.

I tried to speak directly to your point, it’s always the same dollar the trick is figuring out where it should go. My response is that the guy who earned it is in a very good position to know where it should go.

Minimum wage has always seemed odd to me. If an employer, especially in a growing economy, doesn’t think what you can do is worth $15 an hour, maybe the issue is with you and not the employer.

SaturnFan · Sep 27, 2018

Perhaps Premier Dougie and his CONservative caucas should set the example by rolling back their salaries to $14.00 / hour.

oldjones · Sep 27, 2018

onthebottom said:
I tried to speak directly to your point, it’s always the same dollar the trick is figuring out where it should go. My response is that the guy who earned it is in a very good position to know where it should go.

Minimum wage has always seemed odd to me. If an employer, especially in a growing economy, doesn’t think what you can do is worth $15 an hour, maybe the issue is with you and not the employer.

That guy who earned it is who I'm talking about, who's your 'guy who earned it'?

As to your second point, on its own 'worth' is a relative not an absolute, famously determined by agreement between a willing buyer and seller. Government commonly intervenes by regulation in such dealings to ensure the fairness assumed by the moral philosopher who first propounded it.

If everyone is paying that same $15 an hour then that is what the work is worth. If you're a starving refugee with a family and no papers then $5 and hour is 'worth' fighting your neighbour for. But the work is the same in both cases. And we still haven't touched on whether either worker was really 'willing' in any true sense of the word.

Tell you what: Eliminate minimum wages, but establish lawful hiring practices that require open advertisements and equalized bargaining power between the purchaser of the labour and the one who does the work that earns the employer their profit. Something along the lines of: "If that's the wages offered everywhere, and you say take it or leave it, then consider we're the folks who do the work, and at that rate we'll all leave it, thanks very much".

Check your WayBack Machine, that version was way worse.

danmand · Sep 27, 2018

onthebottom said:
Minimum wage has always seemed odd to me. If an employer, especially in a growing economy, doesn’t think what you can do is worth $15 an hour, maybe the issue is with you and not the employer.

It is very simple, and you can understand it, if you try. A minimum wage is a way to ensure that companies do not take undue advantage of poor and disadvantaged people desperate for a paycheck.

Even if you and I never have been in a situation remotely close to accepting minimum wage, it is simply a matter of empathy with the less advantaged.

Doug Ford Just Cancelled Ontario’s Minimum Wage Increase. Low-Wage Workers Are Out 2k

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