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Looks like the right may be splitting again in Canada

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essguy_

Active member
Nov 1, 2001
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Can you blame Bernier for being impatient? It must be very frustrating to see a placeholder like Scheer getting an opportunity dropped in his lap via Liberal miss-steps.

This wasn't supposed to happen according to the accepted strategy of CPC leaders ("Leaders" would not include Scheer). Scheer was supposed to caretake the party, take the loss in 2019 step aside, then take a junior cabinet position (all he is good for) if and when they win in 2023.

If Bernier splits off, then Scheer hasn't even accomplished his basic task of keeping his own party together.

Or maybe this is all part of a grand plan by the master schemer. Harper comes back to politics, RE-unites the party, and runs for leadership looking ahead to 2023.
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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essguy_ said:
Can you blame Bernier for being impatient? It must be very frustrating to see a placeholder like Scheer getting an opportunity dropped in his lap via Liberal miss-steps.

This wasn't supposed to happen according to the accepted strategy of CPC leaders ("Leaders" would not include Scheer). Scheer was supposed to caretake the party, take the loss in 2019 step aside, then take a junior cabinet position (all he is good for) if and when they win in 2023.

If Bernier splits off, then Scheer hasn't even accomplished his basic task of keeping his own party together.

Or maybe this is all part of a grand plan by the master schemer. Harper comes back to politics, RE-unites the party, and runs for leadership looking ahead to 2023.
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A minor speed bump.
Justin will continue to show "He just is not ready & never will be"
Selecting a leader because he has a famous last name was an extremely foolish move
 
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essguy_

Active member
Nov 1, 2001
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Well, it's confirmed.

Not sure how it will play out. Eg: How many are splitting with him? Any? It looks like Tony Gazebos will be staying with Scheer (big surprise, Tony's not one to stick his pencil neck out), so who else is going with Max? The remaining CPC are closing ranks at light speed.

If nobody goes and this weekend's convention is a success, Max will be the lone guy out with no party - maybe a lot of support from the twitter-verse, but with no colleagues, and no structure, it will be hard for him to make any impact. Maybe Max will pick up somebody like a Brent Rathgeber to re-enter politics and build some support out West.

Will be interesting to watch - there's nothing like a family fight between what passes for "Conservative" theses days.
 
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Jasmine Raine

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2014
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He is such a sore loser.

Even after O'Leary quit and threw his support to Bernier, he still lost and hasn't been able to shut up about it.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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When Manning created the Reform Party it was after the drubbing in the 90's. And he did so out of principle.

Every one can see Bernier isnt about principle but ambition. And knowing that they know he won't be loyal.

This going nowhere. He won't get the donors or the MP' s
 
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nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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I hope so, the split of the right was a golden era of progress for Canada. Fact is the Western dominated conservatives are dumbos...
 
mandrill

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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essguy_ said:
Well, it's confirmed.

Not sure how it will play out. Eg: How many are splitting with him? Any? It looks like Tony Gazebos will be staying with Scheer (big surprise, Tony's not one to stick his pencil neck out), so who else is going with Max? The remaining CPC are closing ranks at light speed.

If nobody goes and this weekend's convention is a success, Max will be the lone guy out with no party - maybe a lot of support from the twitter-verse, but with no colleagues, and no structure, it will be hard for him to make any impact. Maybe Max will pick up somebody like a Brent Rathgeber to re-enter politics and build some support out West.

Will be interesting to watch - there's nothing like a family fight between what passes for "Conservative" theses days.
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I'm rooting big time for the French guy. There hasn't been a clown show like this since..... well, since the last Tory convention a few months ago in Ontario.

How the fuck can Bernier be so fucking dumb?! OTOH, I ask that often about most Tory pols. So maybe the question answers itself.

#winning
 
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omegaphallic

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2010
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nottyboi said:
I hope so, the split of the right was a golden era of progress for Canada. Fact is the Western dominated conservatives are dumbos...
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Not if you actually supported progressive policies, functional the libs under Chrietien were to the right of Steven Harper, Jean butchered the budgets for healthcare, education, and social services massively, and the pressured the provinces to do the same. The liberals ran left, governed to the right. It was a golden age only if you care more for progressive platitudes then policies, otherwise for many it was worse then Steven Harper (who increased healthcare a lot, instead of massive cuts that the Jean libs imposed)

See people confuse tribalism and what politicians say and think that is who they are and then ignore their ACTIONS.
 
bver_hunter

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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Trudeau's Liberals have done a wonderful job since they took over the sluggish economy under Harper.
The Canadians definitely do not want to go back to the Harper type policies espoused by Baby Scheer.
This Bernier effect may eventually split up the Conservatives and make Trudeau's position even more rock solid.
I definitely think that Bernier will go for the populist votes from the more right wing Conns including the Far Right / Alt Right base.
 
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essguy_

Active member
Nov 1, 2001
4,432
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38
omegaphallic said:
Not if you actually supported progressive policies, functional the libs under Chrietien were to the right of Steven Harper, Jean butchered the budgets for healthcare, education, and social services massively, and the pressured the provinces to do the same. The liberals ran left, governed to the right. It was a golden age only if you care more for progressive platitudes then policies, otherwise for many it was worse then Steven Harper (who increased healthcare a lot, instead of massive cuts that the Jean libs imposed)

See people confuse tribalism and what politicians say and think that is who they are and then ignore their ACTIONS.
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I disagree. The Liberals did what they had to do to get Canada's finances in shape. That's what I want a Govt to do. How they campaign is one thing, but once in office they need to govern pragmatically and for the entire country. That means upsetting your own supporters at times (and upsetting the opposition at other times). When they were booted from office I believe every Province was in the black too. As for Harper increasing Health spending - he basically wrote a cheque and washed his hands of it. To me, that is irresponsible Govt. He could have taken the opportunity to say: You want money, then Healthcare has to be moved under National purview (or at least try to open up that Constitutional debate). Instead he did what he always did - took the easy way out with our money and claimed that he "solved" the problem. The provinces each took that money and squandered it - increasing waste and digging in with bigger bureaucracies. In reality, Canada should have ONE healthcare system not an individual one for each Province. It's a total duplication of effort, inefficient, and Harper missed a Golden Opportunity to try to change things up.
 
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jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
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Butler1000 said:
When Manning created the Reform Party it was after the drubbing in the 90's. And he did so out of principle.

Every one can see Bernier isnt about principle but ambition. And knowing that they know he won't be loyal.

This going nowhere. He won't get the donors or the MP' s
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People who want to make comparisons with the Reform MOVEMENT are simply out to lunch. Different climate, different issues. The disintegration of the Mulroney's coalition and the re-construction by Chretien of a strong Liberal machine was a catalyst for Preston's efforts. It remains to be seen what kind of support Max has, but I suspect it ain't much. As much as I appreciate libertarianism, I also know that it's a fringe loser of a position. Canada was and is governed from the center. The vote for Max is a vote for Justin.
 
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nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
22,447
1,331
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omegaphallic said:
Not if you actually supported progressive policies, functional the libs under Chrietien were to the right of Steven Harper, Jean butchered the budgets for healthcare, education, and social services massively, and the pressured the provinces to do the same. The liberals ran left, governed to the right. It was a golden age only if you care more for progressive platitudes then policies, otherwise for many it was worse then Steven Harper (who increased healthcare a lot, instead of massive cuts that the Jean libs imposed)

See people confuse tribalism and what politicians say and think that is who they are and then ignore their ACTIONS.
Click to expand...
there were some harsh fiscal realities that Chretien had to face. That is a fact. And face them he did. Socially he was liberal, that is more important to me then sociliast programs.
 
Ref

Ref

Committee Member
Oct 29, 2002
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web.archive.org
essguy_ said:
The Liberals did what they had to do to get Canada's finances in shape. That's what I want a Govt to do. How they campaign is one thing, but once in office they need to govern pragmatically and for the entire country. That means upsetting your own supporters at times (and upsetting the opposition at other times).
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I see the same thing with the new PC government.
 
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