I will be buying a new computer soon and was wondering if I should bother haggling over price and/or components. If so what kind of results can I expect? TIA for any advice.
Buying a Computer - Haggling
- Thread starter Rock Le Taurus
- Start date
Dr. Wanker is right. The markup these days on parts is next to nothing and best to stay away from pre assembled machines. How much you are looking to spend and what your needs are will determine what parts you need. Stay away from stores with bad reps like MDG, etc... Get a good motherboard preferably with no on board accessories (if you have to make sure they can be diabled at a later date) Check out sites like www.tomshardware.com to get good reviews on hardware. Some of the cheapest component retailers I have found are ICCT (www.icctcomputer.com) New Legend (www.look4computer.com)
and Canada Computers (www.canadacomputers.com) although lately have been getting caught for doing some "shady" things.
and Canada Computers (www.canadacomputers.com) although lately have been getting caught for doing some "shady" things.
Canada computers is good, my choice would be http://www.cnpcanada.com located at Keele and Steeles, conveniently across the street from Maple Shiatsu, and a short drive away from HFH, Club Pro, WAGG, Ginger Centre, Rivermede Spa, etc. Wow there's a lot of adult entertainment in that area.......
The Dr. is right, there is very little markup on computers these days and you get what you pay for. Forget Future Scrap oops I meant Future Shop.
While Dell computers are more expensive they are way more reliable. It is true from an enterprise point of view they are a technie nightmare but they last. By nightmare I mean they do not stay with a "standard" part(s) for long. Dell seems to either choose something that is good quality or good price (or both) at any point in time. So if you ever try to image a system forget it. Another bad point about Dell is the shipping and handling
Forget those little computer stores I have seen the insides of those computers - talk about chaos. Ultinet is also not bad. Preassemble computers also bites - i.e. sold in Costco, the Brick, Future Scrap. IBMs not worth it. Compaqs are so so.
Just my two cents worth. Pay a little more get a little more - sounds like a familiar theme for TERB
While Dell computers are more expensive they are way more reliable. It is true from an enterprise point of view they are a technie nightmare but they last. By nightmare I mean they do not stay with a "standard" part(s) for long. Dell seems to either choose something that is good quality or good price (or both) at any point in time. So if you ever try to image a system forget it. Another bad point about Dell is the shipping and handling
Forget those little computer stores I have seen the insides of those computers - talk about chaos. Ultinet is also not bad. Preassemble computers also bites - i.e. sold in Costco, the Brick, Future Scrap. IBMs not worth it. Compaqs are so so.
Just my two cents worth. Pay a little more get a little more - sounds like a familiar theme for TERB
Another point to consider is that with computers, you pretty much get what you pay for. If you see two computers with similar specs for different prices, you can bet that they are quite different. A lot of cheaper systems include integrated video/sound on the motherboard, cheaper motherboards (ECS anyone?), cheaper slower hard drives and the like.
You don't need to be a total techno geek to check these things out- just make sure that you ask. If a store won't give you a component list, the system probably isn't worth buying.
You don't need to be a total techno geek to check these things out- just make sure that you ask. If a store won't give you a component list, the system probably isn't worth buying.
Im currently researching buying a new one myself. I can share some insights with you. As well as some good articles to get you going on being a good computer buyer. The plain fact of the matter is buying a computer is not like buying any other electronic device. The amount of research involved in not getting ripped off is huge. This is the second computer Ive build for myself and Im hell bent on getting talked into anything. Im a computer science student at a local college too and I still find it hard and anoying to do this but ive made some good headway lately and can tell ya a bunch of stuff. Just PM if you want.
Rock
With the big players, haggling won't do anything. The most important thing is figuring out your needs. What do you use your computer for?
If just for internet and word processing, the most important things are a good monitor, keyboard and mouse.
For media stuff--like ripping cd's and watching DVD's. a good DVD player, CD burner, big hard drive, good speakers.
For business, a good suite. like MS Office Pro.
For games, *everything* is important.<g>
As for brands. I've had 3 Dells, and have been happy with them, but Dell is sliding down. They are not an automatic pick, like they used to be. Also, they use Intel chips exclusively, and, bang for your buck wise, Athlon chips are better. I'm a gamer, so at this time, I'd go, high end, for Falcon or Alienware, or, bargainwise, ABS computers. If you learn of a good local maker, that would be an option, as well. Half the fun of buying a new computer is researching and drooling.<g>
I'd suggest that you continue to ask questions, here, and whatever other boards you frequent. I'd also pick up a copy of PC World. They rate the top computers every month. They also have a website, pcworld.com. Look around. Half the fun of buying a new computer is researching and drooling.<g>
Groucho
With the big players, haggling won't do anything. The most important thing is figuring out your needs. What do you use your computer for?
If just for internet and word processing, the most important things are a good monitor, keyboard and mouse.
For media stuff--like ripping cd's and watching DVD's. a good DVD player, CD burner, big hard drive, good speakers.
For business, a good suite. like MS Office Pro.
For games, *everything* is important.<g>
As for brands. I've had 3 Dells, and have been happy with them, but Dell is sliding down. They are not an automatic pick, like they used to be. Also, they use Intel chips exclusively, and, bang for your buck wise, Athlon chips are better. I'm a gamer, so at this time, I'd go, high end, for Falcon or Alienware, or, bargainwise, ABS computers. If you learn of a good local maker, that would be an option, as well. Half the fun of buying a new computer is researching and drooling.<g>
I'd suggest that you continue to ask questions, here, and whatever other boards you frequent. I'd also pick up a copy of PC World. They rate the top computers every month. They also have a website, pcworld.com. Look around. Half the fun of buying a new computer is researching and drooling.<g>
Groucho
While the above mentioned is true. One has to consider future needs as well. You need to buy a system that will do what you need it to now and give you a reasonable expectations of being able to do what you want in the future. Its hard cause the only real univeral axiom for buying a computer is avoid big resellers, Compaq---Ive read some stories in the last few days about how they cut corners, Gateway, even Dell nowadays. And God forbid don't buy anything at Future Slop (except maybe a sound card) Because if you put it in yourself and there is something wrong with it you're screwed and hard. They would rather have you pay them $45 to have someone plug in your sound card.
But back to scalability. As mentioned in the reply above mine and in others here. Determine your needs. If all you do is word processing you don't need more than a 486. Heck you could even get by with a 286 if you are good at old school word processing. But also try to think ahead. Thinking ahead however also doesn't mean going for the latest and greatest. For example say you like to play games. Games are always a good metre stick to use because a good gaming rig can handle anything. If you like games. A 700 Mhz processor with a good decent middle of the road vid card will do ya fine. But in another 6 months it problably won't. Now a 700 is now towards the bottom of the heap so you could get one cheap. Should you buy one? Well if you want to game no. You could buy a 1.2 gig, also not top of the line and realatively cheap. The logic here? By the time the 1.2 is nearing uslessness you can upgrade to a 1.8 which even now isn't top of the line and by the time a 1.2 is useless a 1.8 will not be far behind that. Does that mean the 1.8 is useless too? No. Just farther from the markerting version of what is best. If you picked your motherboard right when buying that 1.2 you can pop the 1.8 in when you need it. And by that point in time the 1.8 will be dirt cheap.
A good Motherboard is a must to ensure you can stay viable for a while. No board or system will be good forever but some planning can assure you don't need a whole new system every year and a half. Overall, you should expect to need a new system from scratch every 5 yrs or so at the outside(of course your use will be the final mitigating factor here--see comment about word processing above)
Unfortuantely for the average consumer, good motherboards are infrequently used by large resellers and most local computer shops. Someone else mentioned how much Dell has got into bed with Intel. That is so true. They use only Intel stuff and not just processors either, motherboards too and chipsets, and Intel sucks at making those. But Dell can get them cheap.
Compaq puts the cheapest, puniest power supplies that will work into their machines. So what you ask? Try and put a extra card or two in your compaq and boom it won't run. Another common tactic is using motherboards with one free expansion slot left. Put in one thing and hope you like a lot cause its the only toy you can have.
Again comes down to determining needs as another poster mentioned.
Why not post what you want to use the computer for and then those of us so inclined in this area can tell ya the kind of stuff you should be looking for. I bet the answers would be very similar judging from what I have read here. All of us who have replied are in the same book we have just presented different pages from it. Unfortunately the How to buy a computer book is pretty long sometimes.
But back to scalability. As mentioned in the reply above mine and in others here. Determine your needs. If all you do is word processing you don't need more than a 486. Heck you could even get by with a 286 if you are good at old school word processing. But also try to think ahead. Thinking ahead however also doesn't mean going for the latest and greatest. For example say you like to play games. Games are always a good metre stick to use because a good gaming rig can handle anything. If you like games. A 700 Mhz processor with a good decent middle of the road vid card will do ya fine. But in another 6 months it problably won't. Now a 700 is now towards the bottom of the heap so you could get one cheap. Should you buy one? Well if you want to game no. You could buy a 1.2 gig, also not top of the line and realatively cheap. The logic here? By the time the 1.2 is nearing uslessness you can upgrade to a 1.8 which even now isn't top of the line and by the time a 1.2 is useless a 1.8 will not be far behind that. Does that mean the 1.8 is useless too? No. Just farther from the markerting version of what is best. If you picked your motherboard right when buying that 1.2 you can pop the 1.8 in when you need it. And by that point in time the 1.8 will be dirt cheap.
A good Motherboard is a must to ensure you can stay viable for a while. No board or system will be good forever but some planning can assure you don't need a whole new system every year and a half. Overall, you should expect to need a new system from scratch every 5 yrs or so at the outside(of course your use will be the final mitigating factor here--see comment about word processing above)
Unfortuantely for the average consumer, good motherboards are infrequently used by large resellers and most local computer shops. Someone else mentioned how much Dell has got into bed with Intel. That is so true. They use only Intel stuff and not just processors either, motherboards too and chipsets, and Intel sucks at making those. But Dell can get them cheap.
Compaq puts the cheapest, puniest power supplies that will work into their machines. So what you ask? Try and put a extra card or two in your compaq and boom it won't run. Another common tactic is using motherboards with one free expansion slot left. Put in one thing and hope you like a lot cause its the only toy you can have.
Again comes down to determining needs as another poster mentioned.
Why not post what you want to use the computer for and then those of us so inclined in this area can tell ya the kind of stuff you should be looking for. I bet the answers would be very similar judging from what I have read here. All of us who have replied are in the same book we have just presented different pages from it. Unfortunately the How to buy a computer book is pretty long sometimes.
Upgrade, upgrade upgrade
My 2 cents
First thing to look at is the upgradeability of the CPU. The new processors are 2Ghz+. Personally I am quite happy with my Pentium IV 1.5 Ghz. I recently upgraded my memory to 1536 Mhz RAM and the thing cooks.
Stay away from HP, because what you see is what you get. Compaq computers only allow you to upgrade with Compaq parts. Don't buy a pc from the Price Club / Costco because they are usually the first ones to go obsolete.
Recently DELL & IBM have come out with reasonably priced bundles. On average you may wind up paying an extra $100 to $200 when all is said and done. But your computer will offer greater upgradeability and last you longer. you can buy directly from both companies.
Don't buy from Radio Shack (Got questions... they don't have the answers - they're just salesmen/women) or Future Shop.
Stay away from the small computer shops unless you are capable of fixing the pc yourself.
My 2 cents
First thing to look at is the upgradeability of the CPU. The new processors are 2Ghz+. Personally I am quite happy with my Pentium IV 1.5 Ghz. I recently upgraded my memory to 1536 Mhz RAM and the thing cooks.
Stay away from HP, because what you see is what you get. Compaq computers only allow you to upgrade with Compaq parts. Don't buy a pc from the Price Club / Costco because they are usually the first ones to go obsolete.
Recently DELL & IBM have come out with reasonably priced bundles. On average you may wind up paying an extra $100 to $200 when all is said and done. But your computer will offer greater upgradeability and last you longer. you can buy directly from both companies.
Don't buy from Radio Shack (Got questions... they don't have the answers - they're just salesmen/women) or Future Shop.
Stay away from the small computer shops unless you are capable of fixing the pc yourself.
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Thanks for the advice
Thanks for the advice. I tried a bit of haggling but didn't get anywhere. I got the same response that some of you mentioned, very tight margins. I believe this because of all of the computer stores out there. I actually bought at MDG although that company was mentioned as one to avoid. I found that their prices and quality of components was comparable to anywhere else I looked.
Thanks for the advice. I tried a bit of haggling but didn't get anywhere. I got the same response that some of you mentioned, very tight margins. I believe this because of all of the computer stores out there. I actually bought at MDG although that company was mentioned as one to avoid. I found that their prices and quality of components was comparable to anywhere else I looked.
computer knowledge
My experience of buying a computer wasn't the greatest experience. When i bought my pc at a place called MDG . This company spends the most I think on advertising and to brainwash you to buy from them with cheap prices added software etc. Well the salesman said that at the time my computer was one you could up grade etc and all the bellls and whistles . I get it home no operating system installed take back another 180 bucks to get windows installed. So i bought a few games my video card need to be increased so take it for upgrade . I take my modem in for the video card for upgrade and said will wait, 3 hours go by and still waiting then comes out sorry having problems with video card come back tomorrow. So next day get there and tells me that can't install video card because my card is built in and can't upgrade and he blames my software for causing the video card problems Well i lost it on this guy and then i get it home and nothing works in my video card nothing I take it back and says can't do anytrhing about it.So iam pissed off and call head office to complain and they call him and tell him iam not happy and he phones me for calling head office and wants to punch my lights out for turning him in! Well this place has cheap prices and I found that it uses old parts because I have had it fixed and when the guy looked at the whole system they where outdated parts so they sale for cheap prices and you get what you pay for! MDG is cheap but by from someone that is going to treat you as a customer and not lie about what is upgradeable and give you the run around later. All I can say is get one with and operating system and totally upgradeable and with some kinda warranty avoid MDG computers!
My experience of buying a computer wasn't the greatest experience. When i bought my pc at a place called MDG . This company spends the most I think on advertising and to brainwash you to buy from them with cheap prices added software etc. Well the salesman said that at the time my computer was one you could up grade etc and all the bellls and whistles . I get it home no operating system installed take back another 180 bucks to get windows installed. So i bought a few games my video card need to be increased so take it for upgrade . I take my modem in for the video card for upgrade and said will wait, 3 hours go by and still waiting then comes out sorry having problems with video card come back tomorrow. So next day get there and tells me that can't install video card because my card is built in and can't upgrade and he blames my software for causing the video card problems Well i lost it on this guy and then i get it home and nothing works in my video card nothing I take it back and says can't do anytrhing about it.So iam pissed off and call head office to complain and they call him and tell him iam not happy and he phones me for calling head office and wants to punch my lights out for turning him in! Well this place has cheap prices and I found that it uses old parts because I have had it fixed and when the guy looked at the whole system they where outdated parts so they sale for cheap prices and you get what you pay for! MDG is cheap but by from someone that is going to treat you as a customer and not lie about what is upgradeable and give you the run around later. All I can say is get one with and operating system and totally upgradeable and with some kinda warranty avoid MDG computers!
wo99...
welcome to the world of ads and marketing... just because the dells, ibm, compaq, hp, mdg, ipc of the world blitz the media with their products doesn't mean they're the best in town.
it's sort of like sp's, if you do your research and due diligence, you generally get what you pay for...
people always seem to go with the lowest price with the biggest ads... a little research and probing around and you can figure out what you can afford and get for that price. people are always afraid they're going to get ripped off, yet they're the same ones who generally want the cheapest price in town... and they wonder why they got ripped off...
as with everything else, do your research and do business with a place you can trust... if the price is a lot lower than the competition you know there's a scam going on...
mav
welcome to the world of ads and marketing... just because the dells, ibm, compaq, hp, mdg, ipc of the world blitz the media with their products doesn't mean they're the best in town.
it's sort of like sp's, if you do your research and due diligence, you generally get what you pay for...
people always seem to go with the lowest price with the biggest ads... a little research and probing around and you can figure out what you can afford and get for that price. people are always afraid they're going to get ripped off, yet they're the same ones who generally want the cheapest price in town... and they wonder why they got ripped off...
as with everything else, do your research and do business with a place you can trust... if the price is a lot lower than the competition you know there's a scam going on...
mav
maverick
You are right about advertising i grant you but like I said first computer i ever purchased and did shop around I actually seen there ads in one of the computer magazines rating them numer one for their sales and service. Yes compared to other places they were compatible with prices , so wasn't looking for cheap computer just honesty and good product! Yes its likegoing to a sp's for the first time and getting there and was advertised on the terb as better quality and price! and been ripped off!
You are right about advertising i grant you but like I said first computer i ever purchased and did shop around I actually seen there ads in one of the computer magazines rating them numer one for their sales and service. Yes compared to other places they were compatible with prices , so wasn't looking for cheap computer just honesty and good product! Yes its likegoing to a sp's for the first time and getting there and was advertised on the terb as better quality and price! and been ripped off!
OK here's my 2 cents (I work in tech support and network administration and have my A+ certification if that means anything).
For novices, I recommend Dell, their service is second to none. The systems are a bit more expensive than the other brand names, but any problems are dealt with by an at home technician (they go to your house) within one business day for the first year of ownership, and extended warranties are available for up to 3 years. Hardware is generally brand name, intel processors, western digital hard drives, brand name cd/dvd drives, brand name memory, etc. Compatibility is no problem as well, parts are interchangeable with other clone computers, which is a major problem with the other big names (HP and Compaq for example).
If you have a reasonable knowledge of computers, go to Computers and Peripherals at Steeles and Keele, or Canada Computers at Spadina and College. They can customize a system based on what you are looking for (eg. gamers, heavy internet users, graphics users, etc), with brand name parts, and their technicians are all A+ certified and know their stuff, if you have a problem there is no red tape like at a Future Shop (where no one there knows anything about computers so they have to send it off somewhere and you won't get it back for a week or two), you just bring your system in and the guy will look at it right away.
My first computer was from Ultinet at Dufferin and 401. What a piece of shit it was, never shut down properly, all parts were no name, crashed constantly, service was crap, I had to bring it back 4 times in the first 6 months. I've heard MDG was pretty much the same, crappy parts and service, they depend on cheap prices (which come from shitty parts).
In short, don't base your purchase strictly on price, you do get what you pay for.
For novices, I recommend Dell, their service is second to none. The systems are a bit more expensive than the other brand names, but any problems are dealt with by an at home technician (they go to your house) within one business day for the first year of ownership, and extended warranties are available for up to 3 years. Hardware is generally brand name, intel processors, western digital hard drives, brand name cd/dvd drives, brand name memory, etc. Compatibility is no problem as well, parts are interchangeable with other clone computers, which is a major problem with the other big names (HP and Compaq for example).
If you have a reasonable knowledge of computers, go to Computers and Peripherals at Steeles and Keele, or Canada Computers at Spadina and College. They can customize a system based on what you are looking for (eg. gamers, heavy internet users, graphics users, etc), with brand name parts, and their technicians are all A+ certified and know their stuff, if you have a problem there is no red tape like at a Future Shop (where no one there knows anything about computers so they have to send it off somewhere and you won't get it back for a week or two), you just bring your system in and the guy will look at it right away.
My first computer was from Ultinet at Dufferin and 401. What a piece of shit it was, never shut down properly, all parts were no name, crashed constantly, service was crap, I had to bring it back 4 times in the first 6 months. I've heard MDG was pretty much the same, crappy parts and service, they depend on cheap prices (which come from shitty parts).
In short, don't base your purchase strictly on price, you do get what you pay for.
Love them girls view of this computer world
Well thanks for the info and maybe when i purchase my next computer i will keep those places in mind!
Well thanks for the info and maybe when i purchase my next computer i will keep those places in mind!
I did the whole build-my-own thing for a while... Assembling the best components and sticking them into awesome see-through cases, etc... Forget it!
My recommendation is to skip all of that and buy a computer online DIRECT from a major seller and buy a warranty. Review/build online, but call the guy in America when you buy it and ask for their best deal.
My computer is the tool that makes me my money (and lets me visit TERB). I've had great luck with Lenovo over the years buying Workstation class gear as well as higher end non-pro computers. I buy the next business day warranties in case I spill my beer on the keyboard.
My recommendation is to skip all of that and buy a computer online DIRECT from a major seller and buy a warranty. Review/build online, but call the guy in America when you buy it and ask for their best deal.
My computer is the tool that makes me my money (and lets me visit TERB). I've had great luck with Lenovo over the years buying Workstation class gear as well as higher end non-pro computers. I buy the next business day warranties in case I spill my beer on the keyboard.
Haggling is so last century. The computer buying boom is over and everyone has one. Sales for computer companies has slowed. Your best bet is to shop for the best price. Bugging the guy at Best buy will not get you a discount because the prices are set at the head office. The back to school season is over, so if you can wait the best time to buy is just before Christmas.
Before buying a new computer ask yourself what are going to be using it for? VR? Gaming? Video editing? Internet, spreed sheets and word processing? Then research the best computer for your needs. If need a computer for VR, gaming and video editing then your going to need a power horse computer be ready to spend a lot of money.
