PLXTO
Toronto Escorts

Bertuzzi Charged!

The Doctor

Still Without Humour
Jun 2, 2003
2,319
1
0
1060 West Addision
Although little info is available, Bert has been charged with Assault causeing bodily harm for the on-ice incident with Steve Moore.

I must say after all this time I really thought they would have a tough time justifying charges. But then again, it is the Vancouver police. They work at their own pace and they bow to no one...right or wrong.
 

Ranger68

New member
Mar 17, 2003
3,665
0
0
Agreed. I hope he gets everything coming to him.
Hockey or not, this kind of thing is entirely unacceptable behaviour. If I were an NHL player, I would hope that I'd be protected from this kind of assault.
 

The Doctor

Still Without Humour
Jun 2, 2003
2,319
1
0
1060 West Addision
The Heatly and Bertuzzi incidents are two completely different events. The only similarity between the two is that they each involved two hockey players. Bertuzzi was an on-ice incident and Heatley's was unrelated to hockey, unless you want to stretch it and say that it was a club event he was returning home from and you want to blame the NHLPA for raising the pay scale so far that 21 year old kids can afford cars they are barely experienced enough to drive.

I don't think the cops should be involved. I do believe Bert should sit for quite a while before he play again, if at all.
 

n_v

Banned
Aug 26, 2001
2,006
0
36
americanson said:
Nearly forgot to mention that Bertuzzi was left off Team Canada's roster while Heatley was not only named to the team but just may start. Some may argue that Bertuzzi's cowardly sucker-punch was illegal and pre-meditated. No question and he should be punished. Now, two wrongs don't make a right but you have to remember that Dany Heatley was KNOWINGLY engaging in high-risk behavior and possible consequences. Unfortunately we all know what transpired and Heatley is getting off too damn easy
Before you say "give him a break' he must feel so bad etc. consider

1) He has his life. Full recovery when he could have killed or paralyzed.

2) He has the support of everyone including the team, the nhl, and the incredible strength of Dan Snyder's family who has not only forgiven him but also made a plea to not bring any charges against him. In fact Mr.Snyder even said "We don't hold Dany Heatley accountable and we love him very much." Wow.

3) He's continuing to make a high 7 if not 8 figure salary and apparently the only thing this may costt him is certain endorsements.

4) Don't know if the state of Georgia is bringing charges but sadly even if Heatley is convicted the consequences will likely be minimal

Still think he deserves a break? Would anyone else get anywhere near this kind of treatment?
americanson - A couple of months ago you had a rant about the comparison between Bertuzzi and Heatly. My suggestion - give it a rest man.
 

n_v

Banned
Aug 26, 2001
2,006
0
36
LF@SECRETVENUES said:
If Bertuzzi is behind bars for 10 years that will certainly send a strong message to NHL players. For what he did he definitely deserves some jail time.
10 years???
 

healer677

Dos XX at Senor Frogs
Jan 13, 2004
2,154
0
36
Playa Del Carmen Q.R.
Bertuzzi will probably get a conditional.

The NHL will probably enforce it's own brand of justice once the season begins.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
46,705
7,981
113
Toronto
Another reason you can't compare Bertuzzi and Heatley aside from on-ice/off-ice is that Bertuzzi's intent was to injure another player with no risk to him.

Heatley's indiscretion had no mal-intent and put himself at risk as much as his passenger. Heatley's was an accident, Bertuzzi's was anything but.
 

Kev

Crap
Jul 29, 2003
549
0
0
Vancouver
LF@SECRETVENUES said:
If Bertuzzi is behind bars for 10 years that will certainly send a strong message to NHL players. For what he did he definitely deserves some jail time.
10 years???????????????????????????????

What wonderful herb have you been partaking?

What about if Bertuzzi never was able to play hockey again? Would that suffice as fair punishment? NOT!!!!! --- Kev
 

The Doctor

Still Without Humour
Jun 2, 2003
2,319
1
0
1060 West Addision
LF@SECRETVENUES said:
well they said if hes found guilty of assult then he could face 10 years in jail. Well thats what I heard I could be wrong tho lol
His sentence will depend entirely on which court hears his case. If it is heard by the Provincial court (like McSorely) then the maximum time he will face is 18 months. If for some reason the case is moved up to the BC superior court then the potential jail time is much more significant and can have a maximum of 10 years I believe.

I can't see them moving it to the Superior court since the McSorely incident set a precedent, but it is BC and they do like to make an issue of these things so Bert could end up being made an example of. The court decission won't be made until after the July 9 hearing.
 

Ranger68

New member
Mar 17, 2003
3,665
0
0
Why shouldn't the cops be involved? This logic baffles me .....
 

The Doctor

Still Without Humour
Jun 2, 2003
2,319
1
0
1060 West Addision
It has nothing to do with logic Ranger...just an opinion. Many believe that what happens on the ice is an offshoot of the physical nature of the game and therefore should be dealt with by the leagues and the players union. Bringing the cops in does not necessarily act as a deterent or prevent repeats of the Bertuzzi incident, as is evidenced by the fact that the McSorely incident is still fresh with everyone in Vancouver, but it only means that other police jurisdictions and the players themselves will be more inclined to respond to incidents on the ice through the legal system which results in the league discipline process being irrelevant.

The legal system is not going to clean up the increasing incidence of violent acts in hockey no matter how many criminal proceedings there are. The league and the players association will have to take the steps to change the players views and external involvement will impede the process.
 

Ranger68

New member
Mar 17, 2003
3,665
0
0
Of course it acts as a deterrent - as much as it does in real life, anyway.

How would action by the league prevent such acts, as opposed to action by an outside authority? Why will external involvement impede the process?
This is what doesn't make sense.

Some actions are so injurious that they must be dealth with by outside authority, and this will always be the case. The line needs to be drawn somewhere.
 

happygrump

Once more into the breach
May 21, 2004
820
0
0
Waterloo Region
Goonish play, stick swinging and all the rest have NO place in any professional sport. But since the NHL obviously cannot police themselves, then the real cops have to step in before someone gets killed.

But where the hell is the NHLPA in all this? The Player's Association is supposed to be doing their job by protecting their players. Let's face it: NHL players, of every team, are employees of the National Hockey League. The rivalry between teams can make for good sport, but there's no other sport on the planet that condones this sort of crap. Even Aussie Rules football, as violent as it is, condemns fighting.

Swing a stick? Kick them out of the league. Land a punch? Out of the league. Intent to injure? Out of the league, plus criminal investigation.

My once proud game has turned in to a free-for-all fight-fest. I'm disgusted by it.
 

SirLickheralot

New member
Mar 23, 2002
121
0
0
Here
Criminal charges are a waste of the tax payers money. The punishment handed down by the league was harsher and more of a deterent than what will be handed out by the courts. Even if the crown does manage to get a conviction, and that is a big if Bertuzzi will get a slap on the wrist. McSorley ended up with a conditional discharge, didn't spend a day in jail, and after 18 months probation doesn't even have a criminal record. Since Bertuzzi's incident didn't involve a weapon he will likely get off with a much lighter sentence, six to twelve months conditional discharge max. 10 years in jail, what a joke Bertuzzi won't spend 10 minutes in a jail cell.

As for actually getting a conviction, McSorley wasn't popular in Vancouver. Bertuzzi on the other hand is still very popular in Vancouver as the Canucks fan appreciation night showed, even after the incident. If Bertuzzi opts for a jury trial a good lawyer should be able to get enough Bertuzzi fans on the jury to ensure the crown never gets a conviction.
 

Kev

Crap
Jul 29, 2003
549
0
0
Vancouver
Bertuzzi also paid over $500,000 dollars in lost salary. Show me another incident equal to this one whether it happened on the ice or in a bar where you spend time in jail plus pay that kind of compensation? NOT it doesn't happen. Its either one or the other. Hes paid the fine its time to move on and the DA needs to quite wasting everyones time with this. --- Kev
 

Ranger68

New member
Mar 17, 2003
3,665
0
0
If you don't think this is a serious development for Todd, you're dreaming.
This is as much a deterrent as NHL action - which, by the way, was FAR from guaranteed. If the league were much stricter on incidents like this, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. They're not.
I'm glad that the legal system is being brought to bear on goons like Bertuzzi. Any predictions of sentencing are just guesses at this point.
 

The Doctor

Still Without Humour
Jun 2, 2003
2,319
1
0
1060 West Addision
Ranger68 said:
If you don't think this is a serious development for Todd, you're dreaming.
This is a development that the Bertuzzi camp has been preparing for since the incident. The whole incident is serious and I'm sure this is something Todd was hoping would not be added to the list of things he needs to deal with before he can get his hockey career back on track. Because ultimately that's what the Bertuzzi camp is focused on...getting Todd back in the NHL as quick as possible with the fewest repercussions.
This is as much a deterrent as NHL action - which, by the way, was FAR from guaranteed.
Most Hockey people look at this a meddling by the police and courts and look at this as a hassle more than anything else. How often is there an incident that warrants any external involvement? Once every couple of years? How is that a deterent for the cheap shot on Naslund that precipitated the Bertuzzi attack on Moore. Unless you're propossing the police are automatically involved for example on high sticking majors or intent to injure calls or the like, the players view police involvement as a far fetched concept. I can just see it now...

(announcer's Voice)

Penalties on the play...Darien Hatcher, 5 minutes for boarding, a game misconduct and 3 days in Milhaven. Time on the play, 14:47

If the league were much stricter on incidents like this, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. They're not.
Actually recent history shows that the league has been quite strict in supplementary discipline in the last few years and it's rulings have been escalating in severity. Could they be tougher? Yes. More consistent? Definitely!

However, dispite the wild generalizations about thuggery and hooliganism in hockey, thankfully there hasn't been many indicents like this for the NHL to rule on. As in the McSorely incident, the punishment is harsh and open ended and affects them in the most personal manner...their paycheck and ability to play hockey (your real deterent). This is an extreme incident that occured and not an example of the run of the mill stick swinging incidents and cheap shots that happen regularly in the NHL. It's the smaller indiscressions that lead to the extreme incidents that need to be dealt with.

And since you had such difficulty following my logic earlier Ranger, this is where we bring it all back to the NHL and the NHLPA being the overseeing bodies that need to be the catalysts in any change. Unfortunately they are reluctant to bring in any menaingful changes because they might further disrupt the flow of the game and make the marketing of hockey to new audiences (read mainstream USA). The biggest deterent to the players is the fact that the NHL and NHLPA can limit their ability to play hockey and earn a significant living in the process. If there is a more punative system in place for smaller indiscressions, the extreme incidents will continue to be rare occurances. If there is no deterent for the small infractions then you are sitting on a potential powder keg of extreme incidents.

I'm glad that the legal system is being brought to bear on goons like Bertuzzi. Any predictions of sentencing are just guesses at this point.
If the legal system believes there is grounds for a case then that's thier call, I disagree and believe it's a waste of tax payer's money. But given that McSorley was 18 months conditional for assault with a weapon, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for anything more than that, or even a Superior Court Trial.

I'm not proposing that the NHL's current system for on-ice or supplementary discipline is adequate, but a change in the officiating system and league approach to discipline will have a greater affect on hockey than Bert spending 1 day in jail.
 

Ranger68

New member
Mar 17, 2003
3,665
0
0
The Doctor said:
This is a development that the Bertuzzi camp has been preparing for since the incident. <snip>
I'm sure they have been preparing for it. I'm sure he'd rather not have to deal with it. Perhaps next time, he'll consider all of this. I feel not an OUNCE of sympathy for Mr. Bertuzzi. Do you? Do you think we should do everything we can to get him back in the game as soon as possible - to the exclusion of dealing fairly and responsibly with the incident?

The Doctor said:
Most Hockey people look at this a meddling by the police and courts and look at this as a hassle more than anything else.<snip>
"Meddling"?!?! By the police and courts?!?! Uh, sorry - this isn't OFF-SHORE hockey we're talking about. Get a grip. I disagree, by the way, with that statement. *SOME* hockey people feel this is meddling. Those folks are wrong.
It's a deterrent in the same way that everything else is a deterrent - if you think you may be punished, you might not act like an ass. Since the NHL rarely acts in an appropriate manner, this may be the ONLY real deterrent.
How does the frequency of these acts influence whether or not it's a deterrent? No logic to that statement. You could say the same thing about the NHL suspension - since guys do this so rarely, how is a year-long suspension a deterrent? You're not making any sense.

Perhaps, like most REASONABLE people, you might expect the police to be involved when the CONSEQUENCES of foul play are severe. Like, when Moore almost has his spine severed. This is the way the justice system works. If you get in a bar fight and everyone walks away, probably very little if anything is going to happen. If you get in a bar fight and someone is crippled, you're going to be in trouble.
Is this not obvious?? Why should this not apply to justice in the NHL and the outside world?

The Doctor said:
Actually recent history shows that the league has been quite strict in supplementary discipline in the last few years <snip>
And there are many HOCKEY people who think that they NEED to get tougher and more consistent. If you think Bertuzzi's season-ending suspension was a slam-dunk, I think you're badly mistaken.

The Doctor said:
However, dispite the wild generalizations about thuggery and hooliganism in hockey, <snip>
What "wild generalizations"? The incidence of severe injuries is increasing in the NHL. This is a fact. The incidence of suspensions in the NHL is rising. This is a fact. This should lead you to the conclusion that players are assaulting each other with less regard for themselves than in the past - something that most hockey people are well aware of.

Everything that punishes them is a "real deterrent". I disagree entirely with your position that only NHL action is a deterrent, as I've pointed out above.

The Doctor said:
And since you had such difficulty following my logic earlier Ranger, this is where we bring it all back to the NHL and the NHLPA being the overseeing bodies that need to be the catalysts in any change<snip>
What does action by the NHL and NHLPA have to do with the justice system? Why does one preclude the other? Where does this hubris that the sports world should be allowed to police itself come from? There's no logic to it.
I disagree, again, with your notion that action by the league is the only deterrent. I think it NEEDS to be a deterrent, and it's the best place to really effect change. That having been said, the threat of criminal action is a deterrent to - read carefully now - *all criminal activity*. Bertuzzi's assault on Moore was criminal. Even hockey people agree that it was outside the bounds of any reasonable activity of the game. Why then should it not be punished outside the boundaries of the game?

The Doctor said:
If the legal system believes there is grounds for a case then that's thier call, I disagree and believe it's a waste of tax payer's money.<snip>
I think that protecting the citizens of this country is not a waste of taxpayers' money. It's baffling that you think so. We'll see what happens with Bertuzzi - you're just guessing, along with everyone else. HOPEFULLY, he's hammered. If this happened on the street, he would be. Does playing hockey at the time of this assault excuse it? Even when practically everyone thinks that this was NOT something a *reasonable* player would choose to do?
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts