Hot Pink List
Toronto Escorts

Baseball question

the_big_E

New member
Feb 28, 2003
3,439
1
0
The Hammer
This might seem stupid, but I've been watching baseball for quite some time and one thing I could never quite understand, nor do I still is...why are managers so content on the lefty vs lefty matchup? I mean how is a righty vs righty any different? Arm angles or some other godly forces? I dont see the difference, so thats why I can never understand why managers try to avoid or set up the 'dreaded' lefty/lefty matchup...
 

blitz

New member
Nov 25, 2003
1,488
0
0
Toronto
i may not have the best answer and I'm not totally sure but a lefty pitcher should be able to better bust a lefty batter inside, nastier pitches (?)

also left handed pitchers tend to be less available in the league, have fewer appearances therefore their pitches may be less scouted (?)

maybe check OB runners for the throw from the mound (?)
 
I can answer his question since I've played ball for many years.
The only reason a lefty is tough on a lefty or a righty is so on a righty is because of the dreaded curveball. When you have a lefty throwing one to a lefty it makes it look like the ball is coming directly for the batter's head only to dip down and away for a strike. If you ever watch TV and see a batter bail out with buckling knees then this means he was just thrown a nasty curve.
It is extremely tough to hit if the pitcher has an excellent curve but not so much if it's a lefty vs a righthanded batter and vice versa. Hence the invention of switch hitters.

There was a guy in the 80's named Mike Krakow (SF Giants) who threw one of the biggest curves in history. This thing would start at your head and wind up in the dirt. Truly an evil curve!!!
 

blitz

New member
Nov 25, 2003
1,488
0
0
Toronto
thanks jh
 
Actually that should read Mike Krukow and not Krakow (Krakow is a city in Poland with an excellent SP scene.....LOL)

David Wells has a good breaking ball as well.
Other ones include Whitey Ford and Three Fingered Brown
 
Last edited:

the_big_E

New member
Feb 28, 2003
3,439
1
0
The Hammer
Yeah but right handers throw curve balls too...I remember in the all star game a few years ago, Pedro Martinez made Sosa look stupid with a sickening curve ball...I think it has more to do with arm angles. If you notice, most left handers dont throw over the top, its more of a 3/4 angle. I dont know I am not Mr. Baseball, perhaps there is no answer and its all mystique!
 

champ

New member
Sep 7, 2001
497
2
0
Toronto
Interesting question Big E.

I think the question was - "Why don't managers strategize against the lefty vs lefty match up " as they would righty on righty?

The only thing I can think of is that the percentages are in favour of taking your chances by leaving the lefthander in against the lefthanded hitters versus pulling him and inserting a righty ( that is where you would get that counter balance in any off speed pitch. Not just the curve but sliders , cut fastballs , forkballs , etc ... the thought is that a person with a bias toward right or left gets tied up by the opposite bias. Try it sometime. It's harder to pick the ball up when it is thrown by a lefthander and you are a righty ... who knew!). Lefthanders are like SP's who offer Greek and BBBJ . Not rare but less available than righties. Kinda the old supply and demand thing. You would be playing the percentages by leaving that valuable southpaw in and having him available for the righties in the other teams lineup.

I will say that if a pitcher is dominant ( that is to say that he is not a journeyman middle relief specialist ) he will be given fair opportunity to face any batter regardless of which way he hits.

That my spin Big E.

Speaking of dominating lefthanders with a wicked curveball. Sandy Koufax is the best lefthander in the hostory of the game and he threw his yacker ( slang for curve ) straight overhand. Very rare. Very hard on ones elbow ( that was Sandy's demise ). It was devestating. You watch the old films and you see guys who faced him many times "bailing" on his curve.

That Krukow / Krakow comment was truly hilarious. I love that.

Do any baseball nuts remember a guy who pitched for the Expos ( my team ! ) in the 80's called Bob Sebra ? He was a mediocre major league pitcher but had a hall of fame curveball. Analysts said that if he had another pitch and could throw a little harder he would have had a long and storied career. It broke three feet!

Anyhow... sorry I rambled. Baseball used to be my passion. The game has changed though. It just has not been the same since '94. Can't get into it.
 

Ref

Committee Member
Oct 29, 2002
5,058
1,003
113
web.archive.org
Lefthanded pitchers can hit the inside of the plate quicker than right-handed pitchers. Left-handed batters have that split-second more to react to a right-handed pitcher...And a split second is a lot of time in the art of hitting a baseball.

For either hand, the more a pitcher can "Hide" his release the better. Tom Candiotti had a great palm ball that fooled many batters because he could hide the release point longer than other pitchers.

In summary, the shorter the distance from hand to bat, the less time to react to a pitch from the batter, thus the lefty-lefty & righty-righty match-ups.
 

jwmorrice

Gentleman by Profession
Jun 30, 2003
7,133
1
0
In the laboratory.
the_big_E said:
...why are managers so content on the lefty vs lefty matchup? I mean how is a righty vs righty any different? Arm angles or some other godly forces? I dont see the difference, so thats why I can never understand why managers try to avoid or set up the 'dreaded' lefty/lefty matchup...
Left-handed people are a minority in baseball just as in the rest of life. Managers would love to have a supply of good lefty hitters to face righty pitchers but usually a team just doesn't have enough of them. An opposing manager can bring in a lefty reliever to face a good left-handed hitter and then switch back to his more plentiful supply of right-handed pitchers to take on the more numerous right-handed hitters.

Righty/righty is, for the most part, unavoidable. Right-handed batters are thus going to see many more right-handed pitchers - that's the normal situation - than will left-handed batters see left-handed pitchers. To bring in a left-handed pitcher to face a left-handed batter will thus give an additional advantage to the pitcher because of the relative unfamiliarity of the situation. For the same reason, i.e. unfamiliarity, a lefty will sometimes have an advantage even against right-handed hitters.

jwm
 
champ said:
That my spin Big E.

Speaking of dominating lefthanders with a wicked curveball. Sandy Koufax is the best lefthander in the hostory of the game and he threw his yacker ( slang for curve ) straight overhand. Very rare. Very hard on ones elbow ( that was Sandy's demise ). It was devestating. You watch the old films and you see guys who faced him many times "bailing" on his curve.
The baseball term for "bailing out" is sometimes called "stepping in the bucket".
See now, you learn something new everyday.

Some of the other answers here on this thread are true but they are not the main reason for the phenomena. The main reason is the curveball. The slider affects a batter less because it's a much tighter spin and doesn't curve as much. Dave Stieb had an excellent slider.
 

Ranger68

New member
Mar 17, 2003
3,665
0
0
Curve ball pitchers vs. fastball pitchers - actually, neither one has a decided edge in "playing the percentages". This is a statistical fact.

It's practically all to do with the angle of the ball coming in to the plate. A batter can't "see" a ball starting nearer the inside edge of the plate as well - if he does see it well, it's busting in on his hands. From an opposite-handed pitcher, the angle to see the ball is much more favourable.
 

champ

New member
Sep 7, 2001
497
2
0
Toronto
Johnnyhandsome,

The curveball is not the daunting task for righthanded hitters facing Randy Johnson! Like the expression says : " It's not the speed that kills ... it's the sudden stop"!

The cureveball is not the deciding factor. If you polled 100 major league lefthanded batters they would tell you that hitting off a righty pitcher is by and large ( although not always depending on ability ) more difficult than hitting a lefty.

The curveball is decidily a more difficult pitch to hitch than a fastball. You are programmed as a youth to hit fastballs. As you progress through youth baseball you start to face young pitchers who throw a "spinner". A crude version of the curve. You never forget the day you saw your first curve. It brings "stepping in the bucket" to a new dimension!

I played in a Pee Wee all star game when I was growing up in Quebec. I faced two pitchers in that game. A big lanky lefthander who threw nothing but full on heat. I ran the count to 2-2 and grounded out to second ( I'm a right handed hitter , I got around a little late ! ). He was mowing them down. Nobody hit a ball out of the infield in the three innings he pitched. The next guy was a pudgy guy who I could throw harder than. He did however have a repertoire of "junk" that would rival Valenzuela or Candiotto himself. He was a lefthander as well. It was the first time I had seen ( or faced ) a screwball ! He won the MVP of the game. He struck out six and didn't give up a hit ( walked two ). He had two RBI's as well. Everyone agreed that he was tougher to hit because of the fact that you could never time his pitches. You were always off balance.

The first guys name is Denis Boucher. I cannot for the life of me remember the second guy.

I always had a hard time hitting lefties because it felt awkward picking up the ball ( someone said that here already ).

I hate to simpify it but if felt like you were dancing with someone and they were dancing to different song.
 

Ranger68

New member
Mar 17, 2003
3,665
0
0
Well, if that's what those "100 major league lefthanded batters" would say, they'd typically be WRONG. Lefthanded batters, by and large, hit worse against left-handed pitchers. This is a fact, and it's why managers "play the percentages". This applies to baseball both at the major league level and all through the minor leagues.
 

Ranger68

New member
Mar 17, 2003
3,665
0
0
You're entitled to your opinion.

I've never played ball at a professional level. Makes no difference.

The numbers tell the tale - as a general rule lefthanded batters hit worse vs. lefthanded pitchers, and righthanded batters hit worse vs. righthanded pitchers, regardless of the type of pitcher (power or not) you care to examine.
It's a matter of fact.
 

Speedo

Senior Moment
Oct 30, 2002
1,148
1
38
Here and there
Ranger is correct -- stats prove it. The one exception is if you're facing a guy whose "out" pitch is a screwball (sort of a reverse curve). Willie Hernandez of the '84 Tigers comes to mind. Deadly pitch to face, but also one that can chew up an elbow in no time flat...
 
Ranger68 said:
You're entitled to your opinion.

I've never played ball at a professional level. Makes no difference.

The numbers tell the tale - as a general rule lefthanded batters hit worse vs. lefthanded pitchers, and righthanded batters hit worse vs. righthanded pitchers, regardless of the type of pitcher (power or not) you care to examine.
It's a matter of fact.
Ranger, I'm agreeing with you but not with champ's post, that was my whole point.

And another great pitcher that threw a screwball was Fernando Valenzuela.
 

galt

Ovature, light the lights
Nov 13, 2003
375
0
16
ok...i'm going to take a guess at an answer to Big_E's question and i may be way off base here (no pun intended)...but does the acceptance of the lefty lefty match up really only come into play with runners on?

If you pitch inside and bust a batter in around the hands as a lefty you should have a short hopper to first and a potential double play. whereas it's a much longer throw in a rightie rightie situation cause the ball goes down the third base line.

Should you pitch outside, a power hitter may be able to push the ball deep, a lefty batter will push the ball down the third base line this makes the throw to third much easier should a runner try to advance from second on a sac fly. This throw becomes much tougher should a righthhanded batter push the ball out along first base.

I think these two things coupled with a lefty piticher's ability to keep runners at first close makes the lefty pitcher, lefty batter more acceptable than a right handed pitcher, right handed batter.

these are just guesses so flame away
 
Toronto Escorts