Is Pat Quinn a goner?
- Thread starter Lumix
- Start date
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WhOiSyOdAdDy?
He could come back to Vancouver
but then i guess that may not be a good idea, following the huge uproar amongst the fanbase over the firing of Burke
but then i guess that may not be a good idea, following the huge uproar amongst the fanbase over the firing of Burke
Please oh please let him be a goner. While I agree with those out there that his regular season record is admirable, his playoff record isn't. We were incredibly lucky to get by Ottawa and as well, to push Philly to 6 games. Out-coached... yes. His track record of being loyal to some of "his" players (those he either drafted or signed as a GM) who consistently limped through the season. Out of touch... yes. Quennville would be a great pick.
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No way Scotty would come back...he's made that very clear. Cherry is a non starter...the guy is 70 years old and, as much as I love Don as an entertainer, I think he's a much better armchair quarterback and wouldn't really want to put himself on the line. I think Keenan would be good for the leafs. I think he's who they need. However, as much as I think Pat needs to go he has a year and $1.7 million left on his contract and as long as the leafs are owned by a pension fund it will be more about dollars and cents than bringing a cup to town
How sad. How true.galt said:
Quinn should be directed to the door, and Ferguson, with his Blues' connection, should snap up Quenneville with all speed.
just to elaborate further...Quinn should be shown the door because after 6 years, the players at some point have to start phasing him out, because what he was preeching, hasnt worked. He was given the time to prove he could take them to the next level but it never happened. Same thing would seemingly apply to Martin...and Ross makes an excellent point about Nolan, I dont know why he isnt given another chance....or perhaps 2 years ago Toronto should have pursued Hitchcock, and maybe they'd still be standing now...?
ole Dad
Galt--I tend to agree with you, as long as the Leafs are owned by the teachers Pension fund they will be rather frugal.
But things have to change in Budville. The whole coaching staff has to go...There are too many good coaches who are currently unemployed. We Need fresh blood if we ever hope to have a stanley cup contender in Toronto.
Galt--I tend to agree with you, as long as the Leafs are owned by the teachers Pension fund they will be rather frugal.
But things have to change in Budville. The whole coaching staff has to go...There are too many good coaches who are currently unemployed. We Need fresh blood if we ever hope to have a stanley cup contender in Toronto.
Well, how frugal have the Leafs been recently? Not very. I'd rather not be a fan of a team that spends like the Yankees and makes a lot of poor FA signings. It didn't help the Wings this year or last.
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As for the coaching situation, Quinn may go - I think Ferguson will probably want his own man in there. I've never been Quinn's biggest booster, but I don't think any of this is "his fault".
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As for the coaching situation, Quinn may go - I think Ferguson will probably want his own man in there. I've never been Quinn's biggest booster, but I don't think any of this is "his fault".
Ole dad
Ranger....Besides being the best team in Ontario, What has Toronto done under Pat Quinn's leadership? If Burke can get fired with what he did for Vancouver and Martin is fired for what he did in Ottawa, I see no good reason to keep Quinn unless you are satisfied with a mediocre playoff record.--Just my opinion.
Ranger....Besides being the best team in Ontario, What has Toronto done under Pat Quinn's leadership? If Burke can get fired with what he did for Vancouver and Martin is fired for what he did in Ottawa, I see no good reason to keep Quinn unless you are satisfied with a mediocre playoff record.--Just my opinion.
Well, what would you *expect* them to have done under "Pat Quinn's leadership"? As a coach, now - he's already been removed as GM.
I don't care about those other teams - why should I let what happens in other cities dictate my personnel choices?
If you're not satisfied with a "mediocre playoff record", or, I suppose, not even making the playoffs, you're looking at firing just about every coach in the NHL. Does that make sense?
I don't care about those other teams - why should I let what happens in other cities dictate my personnel choices?
If you're not satisfied with a "mediocre playoff record", or, I suppose, not even making the playoffs, you're looking at firing just about every coach in the NHL. Does that make sense?
ole dad
Ranger-You cant bury your head in the sand and say that Quinn has done a good job. The proofs in the pudding. As GM and coach they have spent millions of Dollars-Brought in his choice of players and what has happened? Same story different day. I quote from his press conference after the game-"The players did not play the system I wanted". Does that not say the players are NOT listening to the coach--so its time to make a coaching change.
This is my opinion and I believe the opinion of a large number of leaf fans and season ticket holders.
Ranger-You cant bury your head in the sand and say that Quinn has done a good job. The proofs in the pudding. As GM and coach they have spent millions of Dollars-Brought in his choice of players and what has happened? Same story different day. I quote from his press conference after the game-"The players did not play the system I wanted". Does that not say the players are NOT listening to the coach--so its time to make a coaching change.
This is my opinion and I believe the opinion of a large number of leaf fans and season ticket holders.
There is an old saying
"Players win and coaches lose" whether you like it or not, coaches more often than not get a bad rap for their teams bad play. On any given night you see the worst team in a league beat the best. This is because they were motivated that day for whatever reason. For whatever reason Pat is just not motivating the Leafs enough any more.
I think if you are realistic about the situation you will come to realize that the Leafs played just about to their potential considering their defense, age, and especially if you take a look at the other teams in the NHL you have to say to yourself that they are better all around teams, much younger in a lot of cases, and teams like TB and SJ should be where they are. Not the Leafs. As great as Belfour is and was, there are a lot of other great goalies in the NHL today who have been playing just as well if not better than him.
"Players win and coaches lose" whether you like it or not, coaches more often than not get a bad rap for their teams bad play. On any given night you see the worst team in a league beat the best. This is because they were motivated that day for whatever reason. For whatever reason Pat is just not motivating the Leafs enough any more.
I think if you are realistic about the situation you will come to realize that the Leafs played just about to their potential considering their defense, age, and especially if you take a look at the other teams in the NHL you have to say to yourself that they are better all around teams, much younger in a lot of cases, and teams like TB and SJ should be where they are. Not the Leafs. As great as Belfour is and was, there are a lot of other great goalies in the NHL today who have been playing just as well if not better than him.
Sheik: you're right you are odd...but that Jacques Martin idea might fly. 
As far as Quinn goes, I like Pat quinn hockey. It's wide open and fast moving when played properly. It can be frustrating at times because it can expose weaknesses in you defensemen if you don't get proper support from the forwards on the back check, but all in all I'd rather have that then a trap or even a defense-first approach. What it also means is that you generally need more mature, experienced players who are more skill focused than the bangers that Toronto falls in love with. I think the Leafs have had a good balance of bangers with skill over the past few years.
As far as his loyalty to certain players, I don't know of any coach who doesn't exibit the same characteristic and if you look at Ottawa the Jason Spezza issue is the primary reason why Martin got fired.
parang: didn't you retire? Anyway, given they playoff structure, the percentage of coaches with good playoff records is rather low. Generally coaches who get to the playoffs regularly have weaker records. The playoffs are a crap shoot (just ask Vancouver, Colorado, Boston and Detroit) so getting there in a reasonably good spot gives you as good a chance as anyone.
That said, when the expectation every year is a Stanley Cup then Quinn is a failure. I don't think he should go and not because of the money. If he does go, it will be due to the belief that there are younger and better coaches available. But just remember, these same coaches Martin, Quennville, Lewis (premature?) etc who are available, have also just recently been fired for not meeting the expectations of their organizations. Would I be disappointed in having Martin or Quennville behind the bench? Probably not, but that doesn't mean Quinn did a terrible job or that I want Quinn to go.
As far as Quinn goes, I like Pat quinn hockey. It's wide open and fast moving when played properly. It can be frustrating at times because it can expose weaknesses in you defensemen if you don't get proper support from the forwards on the back check, but all in all I'd rather have that then a trap or even a defense-first approach. What it also means is that you generally need more mature, experienced players who are more skill focused than the bangers that Toronto falls in love with. I think the Leafs have had a good balance of bangers with skill over the past few years.
As far as his loyalty to certain players, I don't know of any coach who doesn't exibit the same characteristic and if you look at Ottawa the Jason Spezza issue is the primary reason why Martin got fired.
parang: didn't you retire? Anyway, given they playoff structure, the percentage of coaches with good playoff records is rather low. Generally coaches who get to the playoffs regularly have weaker records. The playoffs are a crap shoot (just ask Vancouver, Colorado, Boston and Detroit) so getting there in a reasonably good spot gives you as good a chance as anyone.
That said, when the expectation every year is a Stanley Cup then Quinn is a failure. I don't think he should go and not because of the money. If he does go, it will be due to the belief that there are younger and better coaches available. But just remember, these same coaches Martin, Quennville, Lewis (premature?) etc who are available, have also just recently been fired for not meeting the expectations of their organizations. Would I be disappointed in having Martin or Quennville behind the bench? Probably not, but that doesn't mean Quinn did a terrible job or that I want Quinn to go.
The whole arguement on the Pension Fund being frugal and the bane of the Leaf fans existence doesn't hold water. The last few years the Loafs had the 5th highest salary at over $60 million. It just proves that Quinn as a GM was mediocre at best.
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Re: ole dad
I don't agree either with your conclusion that, because the players don't execute a game plan to the coach's design, means that they weren't *trying* to execute his plan. Clearly, they didn't execute the way either he, or they, wanted to.
Since we're gonna haul out the cliches, it's all too easy to blame the coach. If this guy was such a good coach when the team hired him, what makes him bad now?
(I disagree, by the way, with *all* cliches - that's why they're called cliches - including the ones I just spouted.)
They've brought in the players they could get - to portray it like they had their pick of the players is GROSSLY overstating the case - otherwise, they'd probably have added Gonchar, Hatcher, and Blake to the D, and who knows up front.parang said:
I don't agree either with your conclusion that, because the players don't execute a game plan to the coach's design, means that they weren't *trying* to execute his plan. Clearly, they didn't execute the way either he, or they, wanted to.
Since we're gonna haul out the cliches, it's all too easy to blame the coach. If this guy was such a good coach when the team hired him, what makes him bad now?
(I disagree, by the way, with *all* cliches - that's why they're called cliches - including the ones I just spouted.)
