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My thoughts on the OTT/TOR series...

Goober Mcfly

Retired. -ish
Oct 26, 2001
10,125
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Nuts.

As the third period was dying away last night, I felt a mixture of emotions...from sadness to anger to respect to hope.

I'm sad the Sens couldn't make it past the Leafs again. I'm sad that they actually played mostly up to their potential but ran into an ultra-hot goaltender. I'm sad that I needed to log onto TERB the next day and listen to asshats like Johnnyhandsome rant and rave about how the Sens suck.

Which brings out the anger. I'm sick of people saying the Sens have no heart, no grit, no determination. I think they've proved otherwise. They won most of the battles, but lost the war. And not by much either. Last night was not the blow out of a few years ago, the final score withstanding. And as I listen to the echoing "woo-hoo!"'s emenating from the hallways and offices around me, I get pissed that the Leaf fans around here actually think that the result of this series makes it okay to chant "Sens suck" and belittle the team I love.

However, there were players on the Leafs team that deserve my respect. First and foremost, Eddie Belfour. This guy took the entire team and hopes of the entire Leaf Nation on his shoulder pads and still made save after glorious save. For that he deserves everyone's respect. I also respect and admire Joe Nieuwendyk, Brian McCabe and Gary Roberts for playing their hearts out in the series. These four are the only Leafs deserving of my respect and admiration. I tip my hat to most of the Senator team though. With the exception of Bonk (where the fark was he?) and a few others, the fact that the Sens out-shot, out-chanced, out-hit, out-hustled and out-most everything else except out-scoring is admirable.

Which leads me to where I am now. With a sense of hope. I hope the Leafs are eliminated in four. I hope that Calgary or Montreal wins the Cup. I hope that there will be hockey next year. And I live in the hope that the Senators are a young(er) team with many good years left in them.

Well done Toronto.
 

superquad1968

Lucifer's Assistant
Nov 26, 2003
659
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Goober,

Have hope.

By any measure the Leafs should have been eliminated in 4 games. The Sens, for all the reasons you mentioned, were the better team. I hope with the rash of free agents that will come this summer Muckler will get you guys the one thing you're missing a top notch goaltender.

There's always next year.

BTW Thank you for being a somewhat rational fan. The one that can see the positives of the other team.

SQ
 

HowardHughes

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Jun 26, 2003
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Well said, Goob.

HH
 
Jan 7, 2003
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www.ra-media.org
Well said Goober. It was an evenly matched battle that could have easily gone the other way and for all intents and purposes, probably should have if not for Belfour.

I envy the talent on the Sens team and I do think that they are the team of the future. Personally, I thought the Leafs were going to get blown out in game seven. Luck happened to be on our side in spades.

I do think that they need a new coach, though. One with fire and brimstone in his heart. That would have the trickle-down effect needed to take these guys to a higher level. That and make Fisher captain of the team! Fisher, Schaefer (sp?) and Chara were freakin' awesome.

Perhaps Melnyk will splurge for a serious money goalie. If all that takes place, you can guarantee a parade down Rideau.
 

Ranger68

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Mar 17, 2003
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No respect for Domi? Whatever. The better team won, and Domi was the best Leaf skater. More backhanded compliments. You tip your hat to the entire Sens team, yet say that *only* those four Leafs were "deserving" of your admiration. Frankly, poor sportsmanship.

"I hope the Leafs are eliminated in four"?! Thanks Eugene "We're gonna kill them" Melnyk. Or should that be Daniel "I guarantee wins in game six and seven, followed by a Cup win" Alfredsson.

Goober, no offense intended, but do you think it's possible that some portion of the "Sens suck" chants you're hearing today have to do with the fact that it became, at some point, de rigeur in Ottawa to sport "Leafs suck" hats and t-shirts? Since when did it become anything but poor sportsmanship to belittle another team rather than rooting for your own? Never have I seen such behaviour out of teams from other towns. I mean, playoff behaviour is one thing, when emotions rise to incredible levels, but this has been going on in Ottawa for some seasons now, at all times of the year.

If you're looking for class, don't start with your own fans. Glass houses and all .......
 

Goober Mcfly

Retired. -ish
Oct 26, 2001
10,125
11
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Ranger68: What about the entire ACC booing everytime Alfredsson touched the puck?

And get over your unhealthy man-love for Domi. Don't you think it's a bit sad that Domi is regarded as one of the best offensive players in the series?

I've given credit where I feel it's due. To say that the entire Leaf team out-played Ottawa is looking through blue and white coloured glasses. The Leafs are advancing because of the efforts of a very few players. McCabe, Roberts, Nieuwendyk and (most importantly) Belfour.

Give your head a shake if you think otherwise.
 

The Doctor

Still Without Humour
Jun 2, 2003
2,319
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Goober Mcfly said:
I'm sick of people saying the Sens have no heart, no grit, no determination. I think they've proved otherwise. They won most of the battles, but lost the war. And not by much either. Last night was not the blow out of a few years ago, the final score withstanding. And as I listen to the echoing "woo-hoo!"'s emenating from the hallways and offices around me, I get pissed that the Leaf fans around here actually think that the result of this series makes it okay to chant "Sens suck" and belittle the team I love.
Goober, I don't mean to kick salt into an open wound, but I too get pissed off when people around here (TERB) feel they are justified for beating the "Leafs/Toronto sucks" for no good reason.

The Leafs played their best game last night and your goaltenders did not. As I said yesterday, you win or loose with the players on the ice. Belfour played the way he is expected to/capable of playing. When Sens fans (not you specifically) make generalizations and criticisms about MLSE and Leaf management and their complacency, they forget that it is that very group of "businessmen" who signed Belfour to a contract when Cujo bailed on Toronto for that Cup victory in Detroit. They are also the guys who brought in Nieuwendyk, Leetch and Klee this year.

Ottawa is a good team and I don't question their heart, but I do think there is a need for some tinkering this off-season , as there will be for the Leafs, if they want to continue to improve their chances of winning the Cup. It was John Muckler who said the sens need to learn how to win and I'm guessing that learning experience will come in the moving of some core players to change the dynamic of the team.

As a Leaf fan I'm happy about the victory, but not content with the way it was achieved. Against Ottawa they did not demonstrate that they can be a dominant force for an extened period of time, with the exception of the goaltending. I don't think that will be enough to get past the Flyers, but hey, stranger things have happend.

Yesterday you optimisticly suggested this would end around 10:00 last night and although it is 10ish the next morning, I offer my congratulations to the Sens players and management for an outstanding effort in this series. They have some decissions to make in the off-season, but the a smart people and I expect that we will be going through this again next season around this time. My condolences to Sens fans for their loss, although sadly outnumbered where I watched the game last night, they were passionate and true to their colours.


*extends hand in a concilliatory manner*
 

Ranger68

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Mar 17, 2003
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Goober Mcfly said:
Ranger68: What about the entire ACC booing everytime Alfredsson touched the puck?

And get over your unhealthy man-love for Domi. Don't you think it's a bit sad that Domi is regarded as one of the best offensive players in the series?

I've given credit where I feel it's due. To say that the entire Leaf team out-played Ottawa is looking through blue and white coloured glasses. The Leafs are advancing because of the efforts of a very few players. McCabe, Roberts, Nieuwendyk and (most importantly) Belfour.

Give your head a shake if you think otherwise.
Lots of guys get booed in other teams' buildings. So?

Why is my respect for Domi's abilities "unhealthy"? Obviously, you have nothing really intelligent to add, since you're resorting to calling it "man-love", and "sad" that Domi was one of the best offensive players in the series. (Actually, I never said one of the best offensive players, I said one of the best skaters - that is, most productive and effective. Lots of players had more points.)

The entire Leaf team outplayed Ottawa in that our team AS A WHOLE played better than your team - not that every individual player was better than every Ottawa player - not what I said. Hockey is won as a team, lost as a team.
Give YOUR head a shake if you think otherwise.

I maintain that it's a very backhanded compliment to say we won "in spite of" everyone but a very select group of players.
 

Goober Mcfly

Retired. -ish
Oct 26, 2001
10,125
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*grasps The Doctor's hand, shakes it firmly*

Thanks, and I agree with all you said. I guess there are two types of fans of both teams.

1. The rabid "I hate anything to do with the other team" fans; and
2. The genuine "I hope my team wins, but if they don't I hope it's at least entertaining"

We seem to be agreed that No. 1 is a pain in the ass. Good luck to the Leafs in the next series.
 

duMaurierguy

Member
Oct 9, 2002
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Hope....

As a lifelong (and suffering) Leaf fan, I too have hope. Hope that this will finally be the year that Lord Standley's Cup is brought home. This has been a hope ever since I could remember. Each season ending in disappointment and renewed hope with each new season.

Goob, your feeling about your team are well understood. Ironically, Leaf fans probably understand best. Ottawa has a fine young team with many talented players. A few building blocks away from the 'brass ring'. One thing is certain. We can always count on a great match every time these two teams meet regardless of the outcome.

Is this finally the Leafs' year? I hope so...
 

Ranger68

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Mar 17, 2003
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Goober Mcfly said:
*grasps The Doctor's hand, shakes it firmly*

Thanks, and I agree with all you said. I guess there are two types of fans of both teams.

1. The rabid "I hate anything to do with the other team" fans; and
2. The genuine "I hope my team wins, but if they don't I hope it's at least entertaining"

We seem to be agreed that No. 1 is a pain in the ass. Good luck to the Leafs in the next series.
Yup. I agree wholeheartedly. Those number one guys are a pain in the ass.
 

Goober Mcfly

Retired. -ish
Oct 26, 2001
10,125
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Ranger68 said:
The entire Leaf team outplayed Ottawa in that our team AS A WHOLE played better than your team - not that every individual player was better than every Ottawa player - not what I said. Hockey is won as a team, lost as a team.
Give YOUR head a shake if you think otherwise.
With all due respect, if you think this you're living in a dream world. Ask anyone except the rabid Leafs fans, Eddie Belfour stole the series.

I guess we need to agree to disagree.

Why is it okay for Leafs fans to boo Alfredsson for something he did months ago, but it's not okay for Senators fans to say "Leafs suck" when embroiled in a playoff series with them?

*wanders off shaking his head*
 

HowardHughes

Reclusive Member
Jun 26, 2003
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I think measuring out from imperial to metric sucks...but I don't wear a t-shirt saying that...

Wait a minute...I think I should talk to Fang about this idea...I think I'm onto something!
 

i_am_good

Active member
Apr 1, 2002
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Goober...a class act.

Goober Mcfly said:
...Well done Toronto.
Nicely put, sir.

The Sens are a great team and yes, they do have heart.

Toronto cannot rely on Belfour to keep getting shutouts to save the day. More offence is in order if Lord Stanley is to be their destiny.

GO LEAFS GO!
 

Ranger68

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Mar 17, 2003
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Goober Mcfly said:
With all due respect, if you think this you're living in a dream world. Ask anyone except the rabid Leafs fans, Eddie Belfour stole the series.

I guess we need to agree to disagree.

Why is it okay for Leafs fans to boo Alfredsson for something he did months ago, but it's not okay for Senators fans to say "Leafs suck" when embroiled in a playoff series with them?

*wanders off shaking his head*
We don't need to agree to disagree. You're wrong about mostly everything.

Sorry, but isn't Belfour part of the Leafs team?!?! Isn't goaltending *PART OF HOCKEY*. A big part, as Belfour illustrated.
Once again: THE LEAFS OUTPLAYED THE SENATORS. If you think differently, you're living in a dream world. Ask anyone except rabid Senators fans.

And my other point, again *sigh*, was that Senator fans have been sporting this "Leafs suck" thing for a few seasons now, and not just in the playoffs. Of course, things happen in the playoffs. The Senators have made this part of their mantra.

Watch some playoff games. Almost every town has one visiting player they boo regularly these days. This has become accepted, or at least common behaviour. I still don't see people in Calgary wearing "Edmonton sucks" paraphernalia, or distributing it during food drives.

How's that??

Sheesh.
 

The Doctor

Still Without Humour
Jun 2, 2003
2,319
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Goober Mcfly said:
We seem to be agreed that No. 1 is a pain in the ass.
We have them on both sides.

Kathleen: I disagree :eek: I don't think it was that big of a long-shot but to avoid re-hashing, I'll leave it at that. I hope you hadn't bought the red and black paint already.
 

Goober Mcfly

Retired. -ish
Oct 26, 2001
10,125
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38
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Ranger68 said:
THE LEAFS OUTPLAYED THE SENATORS.
I'd like some statistics or ANYTHING to back that up, please.
Watch some playoff games. Almost every town has one visiting player they boo regularly these days. This has become accepted, or at least common behaviour. I still don't see people in Calgary wearing "Edmonton sucks" paraphernalia, or distributing it during food drives.
If booing another team's player is "accepted", why is berating your provincial rival suddenly childish?

If Calgary and Edmonton met in the playoffs 4 times in 5 years, you'd see even a bigger rivalry than you see in their regular season meetings (which is as intense as TOR/OTT)
 

Bill the Pirate

powdermaniac
Nov 26, 2002
818
2
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alfie

Daniel Allfredson wears the C for a reason, he has stepped into that role and I am sure he is more than willing to accept the responability that goes with it. I thought that his guarantee was his way of trying to be the leader on this team. He knew full well that he would either be the hero or the goat and he knew that Toronto's fans would be all over him yet he still decided to make that statement.

So,............... Good for him , he can play on coach skiiermans team any day.
 

Ranger68

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Goober Mcfly said:
I'd like some statistics or ANYTHING to back that up, please.

If booing another team's player is "accepted", why is berating your provincial rival suddenly childish?

If Calgary and Edmonton met in the playoffs 4 times in 5 years, you'd see even a bigger rivalry than you see in their regular season meetings (which is as intense as TOR/OTT)
1. Leafs won in seven games. How's that for a statistic? The Leafs scored more goals and allowed fewer. It doesn't get more basic than that. How about one that backs up YOUR allegation? Wait - I'll subvert what I know you're going to say - please keep in mind that Belfour plays for the Leafs, and that goalies play a large part in determining how well teams play. Now, you were saying?

2. Berating your provincial rival is childish if it goes on at all times of the year, and people are actually going through the trouble to print and wear clothing with this motto on it. How is this difficult to understand? That booing someone isn't the same as carrying a rivalry through the off-season and regular season? To be perfectly frank, it's very understandable. I'd be pissed too if my team had been booted from the playoffs by the same team so many times without any payback. I understand it - it's still classless and childish.

(Oh, and as for Alfie, maybe he wouldn't have such a hard time if he didn't make himself such a target - mocking Sundin's stick throwing, making wild guarantees ...)

3. Lots of teams have heated, time-honoured rivalries - Calgary and Edmonton used to meet PLENTY in the playoffs. The Habs and Nordiques HATED each other. ..... I don't recall people doing anything but rooting hard at game time. That's a big difference.
 
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Toronto Escorts