Alternative Scenario C-36

natanpd · Jan 2, 2015

I don't want to write a highschool essay and I'm not good at it but I saw a very conservative atmosphere in the country that made me think; Is this Canada?

The problem with the prudish atmosphere we have to deal with right now is that nobody wants to improve the situation and everybody has a phobia and wants to find a way to get around the law. Instead of this stupid ,unfair law that will hit not only men but women or couples that are seeking this kind services, the government people with all the related organizations and escort agencies should have designed a model that make the interaction safer for both sides. Why not adopting an improved version of Swiss model? All the escort agencies even before this law presented themselves as coordinators and whatever happened between the clients and the SPs was a private interaction. Why not regulating the agencies and give them more responsibilites? First, with respect to the health and medical records of the ladies working for them: Do agencies (even famous ones) really monitor the health of the escorts? Do they oblige the lady to get tested every month? No!. A lady that chooses a risky job should have more protection evenif she does not care about it. Second, with respect to the health of the clients: If a client catch STD because of the interaction with an escort, Can he or she sue anybody?No, because it is difficult to prove it and it was client's decision to engage in risky interaction.

Are we going to hammer part of the society (not only men but women too) just beacuse they are "clients" of this service to make sexual wokers safer?

Apart from screening the clients and thinking about money, agenices should have more positive role in this business because what they are doing is more than just "entertainment" it is directly related to the safety and health of the society. All of us who voted for the members of the parliment should really press for a better and more positive law and regulations. Nordic countries despite their show-offs about their social systems made a big mistake in this case. We don't have to adopt their model.

TeasePlease · Jan 3, 2015

This is the discussion we should be having, and should have been having, as mature rational adults. The problem is that C-36/Nordic models are based on value-driven moral judgments. You can't win a fight with crazy, and smart people don't want to get drawn into the drama. You beat stupid by being smarter, and making sense.

The good news is that a handful industry leaders are actively advocating exactly what you are suggesting. IMO, harping about political stripes, blaming C-36 for the global warming/ISIS/falling oil prices, etc are counter-productive. We need concrete, practical and responsible solutions.

The bad news is that convincing industry participants to work within the system is like, well, herding cats.

squeezer · Jan 3, 2015

TeasePlease said:
This is the discussion we should be having, and should have been having, as mature rational adults. The problem is that C-36/Nordic models are based on value-driven moral judgments. You can't win a fight with crazy, and smart people don't want to get drawn into the drama. You beat stupid by being smarter, and making sense.

The good news is that a handful industry leaders are actively advocating exactly what you are suggesting. IMO, harping about political stripes, blaming C-36 for the global warming/ISIS/falling oil prices, etc are counter-productive. We need concrete, practical and responsible solutions.

The bad news is that convincing industry participants to work within the system is like, well, herding cats.

The Justice Minister comes out and calls every client a "pervert", every sex worker a "victim" ignores everyone in the industry except for abolitionists, Evangelical groups and ex sex workers with a sob story and you expect the industry to be able to work with these Neanderthals in power??

TeasePlease · Jan 3, 2015

squeezer said:
The Justice Minister comes out and calls every client a "pervert", every sex worker a "victim" ignores everyone in the industry except for abolitionists, Evangelical groups and ex sex workers with a sob story and you expect the industry to be able to work with these Neanderthals in power??

Yeah, it's called democracy. If you don't like something, come up with a better answer. Calling them bible thumpers and puritanical assholes doesn't solve anything.

btw, if you've ever worked with politicians, you'd know that if you want them to help, you need to give them workable solutions. They need something they can sell.

stay · Jan 3, 2015

TeasePlease said:
Yeah, it's called democracy. If you don't like something, come up with a better answer. Calling them bible thumpers and puritanical assholes doesn't solve anything.

btw, if you've ever worked with politicians, you'd know that if you want them to help, you need to give them workable solutions. They need something they can sell.

Someone has to pay for John being worried about Dick.

Squeezer:
It has been a year and in reality many years,

YET

we have this , don't think that it isn't a problem and that it is restricted to one venue or one segment of the industry.

This is real

MPAsquared said:
Often clients are the ones reporting someone underage. Sometimes a client seeks out underage. Different consequences. Trafficking is harder to pinpoint. Since c-36 I've helped with the rescue of 3 girls. 1 underage, 2 trafficked. Zero customers involved/charged/etc.

although I don't know what took so long, people working together and don't see another having problems. Hard for a customer to know what is happening, especially with all the blood going to the little head. I myself helped out 3 ladies many years ago.

So there has to be some sort of regulation, hard to know what is the best alternative

squeezer · Jan 3, 2015

TeasePlease said:
Yeah, it's called democracy. If you don't like something, come up with a better answer. Calling them bible thumpers and puritanical assholes doesn't solve anything.

btw, if you've ever worked with politicians, you'd know that if you want them to help, you need to give them workable solutions. They need something they can sell.

Exactly this is a democracy and it's time to vote these buffoons out of power. Underage , trafficking and coercion have always been against the law. The SCC never struck down anything to do with any of these three items. The alternative would have been to decriminalize consensual sex work and go hard on the other three, very simple but maybe too simple for politicians who formulate policy without a moralistic slant only.

stay · Jan 3, 2015

squeezer said:
Exactly this is a democracy and it's time to vote these buffoons out of power. Underage , trafficking and coercion have always been against the law. The SCC never struck down anything to do with any of these three items. The alternative would have been to decriminalize consensual sex work and go hard on the other three, very simple but maybe too simple for politicians who formulate policy without a moralistic slant only.

Not that simple, there are women who are in the industry and giving up their money unwillingly that do not fall into the category. This is the delema, throw in organized crime, drugs and you have a segment of the industry in a nutshell. Hard to understand people who can form a sentence can't see it.

squeezer · Jan 3, 2015

stay said:
Not that simple, there are women who are in the industry and giving up their money unwillingly that do not fall into the category. This is the delema, throw in organized crime, drugs and you have a segment of the industry in a nutshell. Hard to understand people who can form a sentence can't see it.

So Bill C36 which throws everyone into the same barrel as perverts, victims, criminals and gives LE a sledge hammer if they wish to use it good policy??

Busts on trafficking and pimps who assault or confine the sex worker were still happening and nothing in C 36 changes what already could have been done for serious criminal actions like underage, assault, kidnapping, coercion.

Effect · Jan 3, 2015

Agreed. This would make a safe, taxable, environment that would greatly reduce where their stated targets can hide in. Such a counter-productive method. We evolved to want/need sex. We have learned what the consequences are and we want to mitigate them. We have also learned that even though we want/need sex we don't always want the social constructs that go with them. And, I feel bad for those that fell into one of those social constructs are are now trapped. Yes, is not right, but if getting a little release and companionship on the side is better than that. People are not perfect, and change at different times, let alone staying together for the kids. Let alone variety being the spice of life.

Sex for money is going to happen. "Illegal" or not. So why make a light grey issue bigger to make it so much easier for the dark, disgusting elements to hide in? Accept that it is going to happen, mitigate the risks, tax it and then underage, forced, drug abusing, diseased, etc, element can be removed from the "mainstream" sex workers. Why make a larger market for the criminals out there?

TeasePlease · Jan 3, 2015

squeezer said:
So Bill C36 which throws everyone into the same barrel as perverts, victims, criminals and gives LE a sledge hammer if they wish to use it good policy??

Busts on trafficking and pimps who assault or confine the sex worker were still happening and nothing in C 36 changes what already could have been done for serious criminal actions like underage, assault, kidnapping, coercion.

You're missing the point entirely. So we vote out the Cons. Then what? Even if the Dippers win (blahahaha), do you think decriminalization equates to deregulation? Fat chance. Bad shit happens in this biz. We need realistic, practical solutions to be credible.

just remember, being her majesty's loyal opposition is not the same as being her majesty's government. Governing actually requires responsibility.

legmann · Jan 3, 2015

TeasePlease said:
it's called democracy. If you don't like something, come up with a better answer. Calling them bible thumpers and puritanical assholes doesn't solve anything.

Democracy? Exactly what part about the formulation and implementation of C36 was 'democtratic'? A multitude of groups/individuals commented against and testified in Legislature; the government chose to ignore all. What exactly about that process was democratic??

TeasePlease said:
So we vote out the Cons. Then what?

A true supporter I see.

TeasePlease · Jan 3, 2015

legmann said:
Democracy? Exactly what part about the formulation and implementation of C36 was 'democtratic'? A multitude of groups/individuals commented against and testified in Legislature; the government chose to ignore all. What exactly about that process was democratic??

A true supporter I see.

I see you've been listening to my fans. Think for yourself. Re-read my post and learn how democracy works.

legmann · Jan 3, 2015

TeasePlease said:
I see you've been listening to my fans. Think for yourself. Re-read my post and learn how democracy works.

No need; your orientation is clear as day.

As to democracy, your party has attempted to subvert (democratic) process at every turn. I think it is you who needs to reconsider how it works.

TeasePlease · Jan 4, 2015

legmann said:
No need; your orientation is clear as day.

As to democracy, your party has attempted to subvert (democratic) process at every turn. I think it is you who needs to reconsider how it works.

Lol. How silly of me to believe that we could have an educated discussion.

I guess you missed the various witnesses trooped up by the Cons to give evidence in support of the bill. But, never mind. That's really quite irrelevant. Anyone who disagrees with you is misinformed, ignorant or evil, right? Sound familiar, Mr. Kettle?

What do you know about me that makes you dismiss anything I post offhand? Are you so blinded by hate for the
cons? And you know that I am a loyal supporter of the Cons? Because someone else here said that I am? Lol. Get a grip, son.

Democracy does not not mean that the government of the day must consult the citizenry every time they wish to take a dump. How many referendums have you known in your lifetime? Is every bill with which you disagree that becomes law a sign that democracy has been subverted? No wonder you're so angry! Lol.

Democracy means that we, the people, have the right to elect our government, who in turn bear the responsibility of leadership and making the tough calls. If we don't like what they do, we can turf them at the next election.

So, my question that you say exposes my bias was actually quite serious - what happens when the Cons are removed from power? Do you seriously think that the liberals will repeal c36 and replace it with nothing? What about the ndp or Greens? If they do repeal the C36, do you really think that that it will be wide open, without regulation?

I see no basis for such assumption. In fact, I think it's about as likely as me growing a third testicle. That's why I hunk the OPs post was excellent and worthwhile discussing. No matter what happens this autumn, no matter who wins, demonstrating leadership and responsibility in the industry is a win.

MPAsquared · Jan 4, 2015

TeasePlease said:
Yeah, it's called democracy. If you don't like something, come up with a better answer. Calling them bible thumpers and puritanical assholes doesn't solve anything.

btw, if you've ever worked with politicians, you'd know that if you want them to help, you need to give them workable solutions. They need something they can sell.

Democracy my ass. We gave them tons of alternatives. The Cons had no interest in giving any other options the time of day. They have their own agenda. That it clear as day Mr Conservative.

legmann said:
Democracy? Exactly what part about the formulation and implementation of C36 was 'democtratic'? A multitude of groups/individuals commented against and testified in Legislature; the government chose to ignore all. What exactly about that process was democratic??

A true supporter I see.

Bingo.

squeezer · Jan 4, 2015

TeasePlease said:
So, my question that you say exposes my bias was actually quite serious - what happens when the Cons are removed from power? Do you seriously think that the liberals will repeal c36 and replace it with nothing? What about the ndp or Greens? If they do repeal the C36, do you really think that that it will be wide open, without regulation?

I see no basis for such assumption. In fact, I think it's about as likely as me growing a third testicle. That's why I hunk the OPs post was excellent and worthwhile discussing. No matter what happens this autumn, no matter who wins, demonstrating leadership and responsibility in the industry is a win.

It really depends on which party would be in power albeit the only party with any chance of taking out the Reformers are the Liberals although I wish it were not so. The Green party would decriminalize it as Ms. May has already stated. The NDP would also do so, the Liberals although many of the MP's have said they would the leader himself has remained quiet on the issue. One thing is for sure, the Libs would not fight a second court challenge and let it die a slow agonizing death.

If Harpo were to win another majority, porn is next. Joy Smith has her sites on bringing us back to Leave it to Beaver Days so we can all be like June and Ward Cleaver. Stop rolling your eyes and take the blinders off, replay the committee and senate hearing clips and watch your team in action, it's disgusting.

stay · Jan 4, 2015

Another useless thread about c36, with only the op providing input. It always seems to end up that the best hope is JT swooping down in red underware and a cape.

Next to come, that the government of the day has enacted a law and the anarchist are going to ignore it.

Wow, when Chretien said he was going to tear up an agreement, he got vote too.

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Alternative Scenario C-36

natanpd

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TeasePlease

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squeezer

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stay

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Effect

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legmann

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