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Lawyer offers seminar on C-36 - There is nothing to worry about.

Sep 13, 2009
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An SP I know just came back from a seminar on C-36 that a lawyer was offering. Here are the highlights of the seminar.

- Massage parlors that offer sexual services will be targeted by police and they will be shutting down left and right soon.

- Establishments close to schools, parks or churches will be first on the list of LE visits.

- Things that happen in a private house or apartment are the between two adults and as long as the two people are discrete they should be safe.

- Mobile test and e-mails can be used against you if the police suspect that you have committed a crime.

- Words like extra and options are safe words to use because they do not define the activity.

- Discussion for options or extras should be face to face and not by phone, test, or e-mail.

- For some reason 4 hands massage can not be advertised.

- Pics on the internet with nudity or suggestive lingerie is suggestive of the activity and can be used as evidence against the SP.

So to sum it up, things were as before with some small changes and discretion is advised. - According to the lawyer that charges $150 a head for the seminar. 50 - 60 attendees. Not bad for a 90 minute speech and a Q&A session afterwards. The lawyer makes off with $7500 for the afternoon, I will guess there will be another seminar next week.
 

Marla

Active member
Mar 29, 2010
1,563
12
38
59
ajax
he didn't say anthing that couldn't already be figured out with pure common sense. I have been telling my clients this info for months. What a rip off and a scam. Plus LE Has already said they are going after the trafficked and the street walkers not the mp's. My inside sources at the cop shops have no knowledge of going after reputable mp's that are licenced. There have been no special forces designated for this use.
 

harryass

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2010
3,206
870
113
An SP I know just came back from a seminar on C-36 that a lawyer was offering. Here are the highlights of the seminar.

- Mobile test and e-mails can be used against you if the police suspect that you have committed a crime.

-So to sum it up, things were as before with some small changes and discretion is advised. - According to the lawyer that charges $150 a head for the seminar. 50 - 60 attendees. Not bad for a 90 minute speech and a Q&A session afterwards. The lawyer makes off with $7500 for the afternoon, I will guess there will be another seminar next week.
thks for the summary and saving me $150. Easy payday for the lawyer.

I can see that the face to face could be kinda hard to do or may be impossible to arrange for both sides .
 

Ceiling Cat

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
28,189
1,103
113
Not only did the lawyer get $7500 for the afternoon, maybe he was giving private consultations in exchange for private consultations.
 

MPAsquared

www.musemassagespa.com
An SP I know just came back from a seminar on C-36 that a lawyer was offering. Here are the highlights of the seminar.

- Massage parlors that offer sexual services will be targeted by police and they will be shutting down left and right soon.

- Establishments close to schools, parks or churches will be first on the list of LE visits.

- Things that happen in a private house or apartment are the between two adults and as long as the two people are discrete they should be safe.

- Mobile test and e-mails can be used against you if the police suspect that you have committed a crime.

- Words like extra and options are safe words to use because they do not define the activity.

- Discussion for options or extras should be face to face and not by phone, test, or e-mail.

- For some reason 4 hands massage can not be advertised.

- Pics on the internet with nudity or suggestive lingerie is suggestive of the activity and can be used as evidence against the SP.

So to sum it up, things were as before with some small changes and discretion is advised. - According to the lawyer that charges $150 a head for the seminar. 50 - 60 attendees. Not bad for a 90 minute speech and a Q&A session afterwards. The lawyer makes off with $7500 for the afternoon, I will guess there will be another seminar next week.
If that isn't the biggest scam & load of shit I don't know what is!!!! Who is this "lawyer"? Why is he trying to profit off of c36?? Talk about setting up a commercial enterprise!!!

Most of those points are completely inaccurate. He/she is charging for wrong info?!

Please please tell me who this lawyer is! I will be 1st in line at their next one.
 

DB123

Active member
Jul 15, 2013
4,739
3
38
Her place
Jeez...he even got some of the common sense ones wrong.

Gotta love those Sunday afternoon seminars.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
80,012
7
0
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
is.gd
- Massage parlors that offer sexual services will be targeted by police and they will be shutting down left and right soon.

- Establishments close to schools, parks or churches will be first on the list of LE visits.
This is speculative, only the police know for sure what they will do, and the answer will be different from one jurisdiction to the next. Plainly there have been some political expressions of support for limited enforcement in Toronto. The level of enforcement may also be media driven (e.g., YRP's crackdown following a high profile murder in a MP), and thus enforcement may depend on which way the wind is blowing.

- Things that happen in a private house or apartment are the between two adults and as long as the two people are discrete they should be safe.

- Mobile test and e-mails can be used against you if the police suspect that you have committed a crime.

- Words like extra and options are safe words to use because they do not define the activity.

- Discussion for options or extras should be face to face and not by phone, test, or e-mail.

- For some reason 4 hands massage can not be advertised.

- Pics on the internet with nudity or suggestive lingerie is suggestive of the activity and can be used as evidence against the SP.
Sound legal advice. The last point isn't evidence AGAINST the SP, but rather would be evidence that she is one, which is actually evidence against the client under c36.
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
13,703
21
38
Not bad for a 90 minute speech and a Q&A session afterwards. The lawyer makes off with $7500 for the afternoon, I will guess there will be another seminar next week.
Lol yup
 

jamestheother

Member
Oct 3, 2006
112
8
18
I'm no lawyer, but in transactions that I have been involved in the other side has given a "comfort letter" as part of the transaction. What I have not seen in any thread, and perhaps I have missed it, is information for clients in order to minimize their risk in relation to activities that were previously not criminal.

I am wondering if any seminars have been set up for clients so that information can be provided to clients to act in a particular way that minimizes the chance of arrest and conviction under the Criminal Code.

I have never purchased sexual services. All I have ever purchased is time spent with a woman of my choice.The donation is left in an envelope (which I have marked "for time only – nothing more" and have kept a copy of that envelope for my records). After my shower which is part of the ritual of relaxation from my hectic life, I spent some time discussing a myriad of issues with the woman who I am with. Whatever might happen after that is my companion's choice. I do not discuss what might happen, I do not discuss any sexual acts or services at all. If my companion feels an attraction to me I assume that she will initiate contact and at least at the beginning I will not initiate anything else but rather be a passive participant.

If my companion starts to discuss specifics or somehow suggests that the payment is for some type of sexual service I will indicate that this is not my understanding, I will dress and leave wherever I might be. Everything that I say and do will indicate that I am only there for the purpose of companionship and spending time with the companion of my choice. The initiation of discussion by my companion regarding specifics including sexual services will raise alarm bells for me as it has in the past.

I approach time spent with companions no different then the time spent when I take a woman out for dinner. I spend time with the woman of my choice and without any expectation of anything, I will purchase dinner, have wonderful conversation and whatever might happen after that is between two consenting adults and is not based on the payment of dinner, or in the case of the companion the payment of the fee for the time spent. I am absolutely clear in this understanding and absolutely clear that if anything is said or done that indicates to me that my companion does not have this understanding, I will immediately advise her that she is completely mistaken and that based on this misunderstanding I will leave the donation for time spent and immediately leave advising her that she must be mistaken in her understanding but that I am happy to reimburse her for the time that I had booked to spend with her.

The cell phone that I bring to the location will not be the same cell phone that I may have used to book my time, as I do not want my work cell phone and my personal cell phone to be confused as my employer and my coworkers may not be understanding of my desire to spend time with companions of my choice.

I have stopped visiting massage parlors. I find that because they are commercial enterprises and not private residences, and subject to entry at all times by police and by law officers, the rights that I might have in a private residence are greater than the rights that I might have been a commercial premises. Because the bawdy house provisions have been removed from the Criminal Code, I do not expect that the police are entitled to enter a private residence except under certain limited circumstances. In any event nothing that I will have said or done will be in contravention of any law.

While it may be subject to change in the future, to the best of my knowledge consensual sex continues to be legal in Canada.

I will continue to spend time with companions that I have seen before and new companions I will meet in the future. If my companion finds me attractive and desirous I will treat her in the same way as I would with any other woman on any other date, that is with respect and admiration in that she would like to spend time with me and finds me desirous.

I minimize disagreements with my companions, err on the side of caution, and if she requests that we stop whenever she has initiated I will do so immediately without regret or anger. As I have indicated, my only expectation is to spend time with a wonderful young woman.

As I have said, I am no lawyer, but I am sure that there are more than a couple legal eagles out there and I would like to find out whether or not there are any lawyers who specialize in providing legal advice to clients.I would like to find out from the majors out there if they have arranged for clients to obtain legal information or advice from a real lawyer who has taken the time to consider the new law and is prepared to share his or her advice with clients of companions.
 

jamestheother

Member
Oct 3, 2006
112
8
18
This is speculative, only the police know for sure what they will do, and the answer will be different from one jurisdiction to the next. Plainly there have been some political expressions of support for limited enforcement in Toronto. The level of enforcement may also be media driven (e.g., YRP's crackdown following a high profile murder in a MP), and thus enforcement may depend on which way the wind is blowing.



Sound legal advice. The last point isn't evidence AGAINST the SP, but rather would be evidence that she is one, which is actually evidence against the client under c36.
That is why I never look at any websites. In fact, I am hoping that companions will start dressing elegantly in photographs in the future.
 

MPAsquared

www.musemassagespa.com
I'm no lawyer, but in transactions that I have been involved in the other side has given a "comfort letter" as part of the transaction. What I have not seen in any thread, and perhaps I have missed it, is information for clients in order to minimize their risk in relation to activities that were previously not criminal.

I am wondering if any seminars have been set up for clients so that information can be provided to clients to act in a particular way that minimizes the chance of arrest and conviction under the Criminal Code.

I have never purchased sexual services. All I have ever purchased is time spent with a woman of my choice.The donation is left in an envelope (which I have marked "for time only – nothing more" and have kept a copy of that envelope for my records). After my shower which is part of the ritual of relaxation from my hectic life, I spent some time discussing a myriad of issues with the woman who I am with. Whatever might happen after that is my companion's choice. I do not discuss what might happen, I do not discuss any sexual acts or services at all. If my companion feels an attraction to me I assume that she will initiate contact and at least at the beginning I will not initiate anything else but rather be a passive participant.

If my companion starts to discuss specifics or somehow suggests that the payment is for some type of sexual service I will indicate that this is not my understanding, I will dress and leave wherever I might be. Everything that I say and do will indicate that I am only there for the purpose of companionship and spending time with the companion of my choice. The initiation of discussion by my companion regarding specifics including sexual services will raise alarm bells for me as it has in the past.

I approach time spent with companions no different then the time spent when I take a woman out for dinner. I spend time with the woman of my choice and without any expectation of anything, I will purchase dinner, have wonderful conversation and whatever might happen after that is between two consenting adults and is not based on the payment of dinner, or in the case of the companion the payment of the fee for the time spent. I am absolutely clear in this understanding and absolutely clear that if anything is said or done that indicates to me that my companion does not have this understanding, I will immediately advise her that she is completely mistaken and that based on this misunderstanding I will leave the donation for time spent and immediately leave advising her that she must be mistaken in her understanding but that I am happy to reimburse her for the time that I had booked to spend with her.

The cell phone that I bring to the location will not be the same cell phone that I may have used to book my time, as I do not want my work cell phone and my personal cell phone to be confused as my employer and my coworkers may not be understanding of my desire to spend time with companions of my choice.

I have stopped visiting massage parlors. I find that because they are commercial enterprises and not private residences, and subject to entry at all times by police and by law officers, the rights that I might have in a private residence are greater than the rights that I might have been a commercial premises. Because the bawdy house provisions have been removed from the Criminal Code, I do not expect that the police are entitled to enter a private residence except under certain limited circumstances. In any event nothing that I will have said or done will be in contravention of any law.

While it may be subject to change in the future, to the best of my knowledge consensual sex continues to be legal in Canada.

I will continue to spend time with companions that I have seen before and new companions I will meet in the future. If my companion finds me attractive and desirous I will treat her in the same way as I would with any other woman on any other date, that is with respect and admiration in that she would like to spend time with me and finds me desirous.

I minimize disagreements with my companions, err on the side of caution, and if she requests that we stop whenever she has initiated I will do so immediately without regret or anger. As I have indicated, my only expectation is to spend time with a wonderful young woman.

As I have said, I am no lawyer, but I am sure that there are more than a couple legal eagles out there and I would like to find out whether or not there are any lawyers who specialize in providing legal advice to clients.I would like to find out from the majors out there if they have arranged for clients to obtain legal information or advice from a real lawyer who has taken the time to consider the new law and is prepared to share his or her advice with clients of companions.
Depends on the mp. Not all sell sexual services for consideration.

There are tons of threads advising clients. Hire a lawyer like the rest of us have.
 

jamestheother

Member
Oct 3, 2006
112
8
18
Depends on the mp. Not all sell sexual services for consideration.

There are tons of threads advising clients. Hire a lawyer like the rest of us have.
Why should clients be required to hire their own lawyer. Why are the businesses that expect its customers to continue to use its services not prepared to spend some money providing a legal opinion to its customers to avoid running afoul of the law so that the businesses can keep their customers.

If there are "tons of threads advising clients", I have not seen them. Please let me know which threads provide legal advice to clients to avoid becoming a criminal under the new law.

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, All I am doing is expressing a typical customer's concern that will no doubt lead to a drop in business. I think that it is in the best interest of the industry as a whole to pool resources and not to just protect themselves, but give comfort to their customers and clients and protect them as well.

All the lobbying efforts in the world, and all of the time that you've spent on your worthy endeavor to advocate on behalf of the businesses means nothing if the customers leave or stay away.

The customers and clients here expect more than "hire a lawyer like the rest of us have".
 

MPAsquared

www.musemassagespa.com
Why should clients be required to hire their own lawyer. Why are the businesses that expect its customers to continue to use its services not prepared to spend some money providing a legal opinion to its customers to avoid running afoul of the law so that the businesses can keep their customers.

If there are "tons of threads advising clients", I have not seen them. Please let me know which threads provide legal advice to clients to avoid becoming a criminal under the new law.

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, All I am doing is expressing a typical customer's concern that will no doubt lead to a drop in business. I think that it is in the best interest of the industry as a whole to pool resources and not to just protect themselves, but give comfort to their customers and clients and protect them as well.

All the lobbying efforts in the world, and all of the time that you've spent on your worthy endeavor to advocate on behalf of the businesses means nothing if the customers leave or stay away.

The customers and clients here expect more than "hire a lawyer like the rest of us have".
You can't be serious?? So if I go a business, let's say a casino, or a bar, and someone breaks the law there, that business is expected to pay your legal bills??!? Blahahahahahahahahaha!

I have posted like 4times saying if you will pay mine, I will pay yours.

As a citizen of canada it is your responsibility to ensure you are a law abiding canadian. Get educated on the issues, read, ask questions, and seek council. Also, I have posted several times my offer to any customer to contact me directly if you would like more info about this law.

In 1 thread you guys say "don't listen to her" and the next it's "give us council/legal". Make up your minds people.

Don't listen to terb don't listen to owners or girls. Do your own homework from non-bias resources. Keep up on the local news. And ask tons of questions.

As for my lobbying, none of that has been regarding my business. Its been a personal mission for all sex workers. I was one for almost a decade. My interests come from that experience.

I have spent tens of thousands of dollars this year fighting c36. Of my own money. I've dedicated hundreds of hours of my time. You seem to forget that without protecting clients, I'd have no business. I've even had face to face meetings with customers because my time is for you! And for my staff. Every resource possible has been funneled into getting equal rights for all.

Read these links:

http://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?507029-Truly-Heartfelt-Thank-You-to-MPASquared

http://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?505711-LE-walked-in-on-my-session

You should know the extensive efforts I have dedicated to this over the past year before you decide to comment.

This entire forum is dedicated to discussion of c36 from ALL angles. Read up honey.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,355
9
38
Emily, it's not unreasonable for customers to ask for some guidance so that they can still patronize your establishment (or anyone else). "Go hire your own lawyer" isn't quite a good marketing line. However, in your defense, I can vouch that you have given your input on numerous threads here, based on your own research which includes consultations with lawyers, LE, and sex worker organizations.
 

MPAsquared

www.musemassagespa.com
Emily, it's not unreasonable for customers to ask for some guidance so that they can still patronize your establishment (or anyone else). "Go hire your own lawyer" isn't quite a good marketing line. However, in your defense, I can vouch that you have given your input on numerous threads here, based on your own research which includes consultations with lawyers, LE, and sex worker organizations.
That was 1 comment to some dude saying owners should provide lawyers for their clients. To which I said go hire your own lawyer. Let's keep context.

I have offered my time to any & every client that has questions. Did you read the links?? If u had, you wouldn't have posted this!

For arguments sake, i'll say it again....feel free to contact me directly if you have questions or concerns. I will email with you, call you, or meet with you in person to discuss & help however I can.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,355
9
38
That was 1 comment to some dude saying owners should provide lawyers for their clients. To which I said go hire your own lawyer. Let's keep context.

I have offered my time to any & every client that has questions. Did you read the links?? If u had, you wouldn't have posted this!

For arguments sake, i'll say it again....feel free to contact me directly if you have questions or concerns. I will email with you, call you, or meet with you in person to discuss & help however I can.

He didn't ask you to pay for his lawyer. He's just suggesting that the AE businesses provide some legal guidance as a public service to its customers, and if you read MY post, I said that you have done that. Chillax.
 

jamestheother

Member
Oct 3, 2006
112
8
18
You can't be serious?? So if I go a business, let's say a casino, or a bar, and someone breaks the law there, that business is expected to pay your legal bills??!? Blahahahahahahahahaha!

I have posted like 4times saying if you will pay mine, I will pay yours.

As a citizen of canada it is your responsibility to ensure you are a law abiding canadian. Get educated on the issues, read, ask questions, and seek council. Also, I have posted several times my offer to any customer to contact me directly if you would like more info about this law.

In 1 thread you guys say "don't listen to her" and the next it's "give us council/legal". Make up your minds people.

Don't listen to terb don't listen to owners or girls. Do your own homework from non-bias resources. Keep up on the local news. And ask tons of questions.

As for my lobbying, none of that has been regarding my business. Its been a personal mission for all sex workers. I was one for almost a decade. My interests come from that experience.

I have spent tens of thousands of dollars this year fighting c36. Of my own money. I've dedicated hundreds of hours of my time. You seem to forget that without protecting clients, I'd have no business. I've even had face to face meetings with customers because my time is for you! And for my staff. Every resource possible has been funneled into getting equal rights for all.

Read these links:

http://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?507029-Truly-Heartfelt-Thank-You-to-MPASquared

http://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?505711-LE-walked-in-on-my-session

You should know the extensive efforts I have dedicated to this over the past year before you decide to comment.

This entire forum is dedicated to discussion of c36 from ALL angles. Read up honey.
I didn't come here looking for a fight with you, MPASquared. I don't know why your tone is so hostile. All I was doing was asking a very reasonable question regarding advice for your customers and did not expect to be attacked by you here.

To set the record straight I was not asking for your counsel, rather I was looking to be referred to a lawyer who may have been hired by the industry majors to give some comfort to their customer base.

You do yourself a real disservice by responding the way you do. It's disrespectful and condescending. It takes away from your real accomplishments and diminishes you.

Does anyone other then MPASquared have an answer to my original post.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,355
9
38
I didn't come here looking for a fight with you, MPASquared. I don't know why your tone is so hostile. All I was doing was asking a very reasonable question regarding advice for your customers and did not expect to be attacked by you here.

To set the record straight I was not asking for your counsel, rather I was looking to be referred to a lawyer who may have been hired by the industry majors to give some comfort to their customer base.

You do yourself a real disservice by responding the way you do. It's disrespectful and condescending. It takes away from your real accomplishments and diminishes you.

Does anyone other then MPASquared have an answer to my original post.

She has stated that there are tons of threads here which address the legal issues (there are). Sometimes, it's the same questions that are asked over and over again which might get to those who have been the most vocal on explaining the new law. I don't think she wants to bite your hand. (Maybe mine lol).
 

jamestheother

Member
Oct 3, 2006
112
8
18
She has stated that there are tons of threads here which address the legal issues (there are). Sometimes, it's the same questions that are asked over and over again which might get to those who have been the most vocal on explaining the new law. I don't think she wants to bite your hand. (Maybe mine lol).
I have read most of the threads here. I have no idea who is writing them, I have no idea if they have any background in interpreting the law, and while they provide some general information based on the discussions here, I have yet to see a thread which provides competent legal advice to clients who see companions and how to not break the law.

I wasn't even directing my comments towards massage parlors as I have not stepped foot in a massage parlor for at least 2 years.

I would be obliged if anyone could direct me to a particular thread that sets out how clients are able to see companions (formerly SPs)without breaking the law.
 
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