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C36 and warrants

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LikeRedHeads

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Jul 8, 2011
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I have a question and seeking legal advice if possible.

I have seen LE enter the hotel room and ask the girls for their IDs. They didn't have any warrants to enter the premises.
I have also heard that LE went to see local SPs in Ottawa when they were "looking for" underage girls. I am not sure if they had to stay at the door or if they entered the apartment. The apartments were rented by the SPs.
I know that LE cannot enter your private property (house or condo that you own) if they don't have a warrant.

Now my question but before here is the context.

I regularly partake in Gangbangs that are being organized in a rented apartment by the GB organizer.

If a neighbour calls the cops, can they enter the apartment and arrest everybody partaking in the GB, or do they need a warrant?

The apartment is rented so technically, is it like a hotel room or is that different because the tenant has a lease and that makes him a temporary owner (and therefore LE need a warrant).

Thanks for the info.
 
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jcpro

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They don't need a warrant, if they have a reasonable suspicion that an illegal activity is taking place. A complainig neighbor would be enough. Participating in a gb is not a crime. Paying a hooker to participate in one is. Only contract ladies who will not talk to le. Good luck with that.
 
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LikeRedHeads

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The money is given to the GB organizer, so no direct payment to the hooker, but some of the money goes to her for sure (through the GB organizer). If the girl talks to LE isn't that the end of her participating in GBs (and getting paid)?
 
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jcpro

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LikeRedHeads said:
The money is given to the GB organizer, so no direct payment to the hooker, but some of the money goes to her for sure (through the GB organizer). If the girl talks to LE isn't that the end of her participating in GBs (and getting paid)?
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Dicks are dime a dozen. Few will care, most will not know or won't care. The career girls might not cooperate, but if there are secondary charges(drugs, or some other, previous legal complications) hanging over SP, she'll sell you down the river in a New York minute. It does not matter who you give money to. As long as you pay to play, you're in violation.
 
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Youchked

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LikeRedHeads, I am trying to send you a private msg but it seems your inbox is full.
 
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LikeRedHeads

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jcpro said:
They don't need a warrant, if they have a reasonable suspicion that an illegal activity is taking place. A complainig neighbor would be enough. Participating in a gb is not a crime. Paying a hooker to participate in one is. Only contract ladies who will not talk to le. Good luck with that.
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So they can break inside a private property without a warrant? Isn't that illegal? They need warrants to go search Hells Angels quarters but they don't need one for a small local GB party?
 
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fuji

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LikeRedHeads said:
So they can break inside a private property without a warrant? Isn't that illegal? They need warrants to go search Hells Angels quarters but they don't need one for a small local GB party?
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It depends. If they have probable cause, they can. They either need probable cause, or a warrant. Also in a lot of these cases you were describing where they went to visit an SP, they just booked her, and she effectively invited them in. They don't need a warrant if you invite them in.

In any case if they have reports of prostitution in your apartment it won't take them very long to get a warrant.
 
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LikeRedHeads

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asuran said:
If there is a complaint by a neighbour, LE may use the exigent circumstances to enter a private property depending on the circumstances.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadi...re/Warrantless_Searches/Exigent_Circumstances

LOL, learned about this from watching one of those Law Enforcement dramas.
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Exigent circumstances are only allowed "if the conditions for obtaining a warrant exist but by reason of exigent circumstances it would be impracticable to obtain a warrant.". I would be surprised a judge will give a warrant for a GB where there is no prior evidence of the fact that the GB is not free.

Thanks for the info on those "exigent circumstances".
 
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firstr8guy

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Jun 20, 2008
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They need a warrant to enter you're home unless you allow them in. The only exception is if they are in fresh pursuit or the exigent circumstance
"The exigent circumstance doctrine provides that when probable cause has been established to believe that evidence will be removed or destroyed before a warrant can be obtained, a warrantless search and seizure can be justified. As many courts have noted, the need for the exigent circumstance doctrine is particularly compelling in narcotics cases, because contraband and records can be easily and quickly destroyed while a search is progressing. Police officers relying on this exception must demonstrate an objectively reasonable basis for deciding that immediate action is required.

Your gangbang wouldn't qualify
 
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LikeRedHeads

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Jul 8, 2011
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fuji said:
It depends. If they have probable cause, they can. They either need probable cause, or a warrant. Also in a lot of these cases you were describing where they went to visit an SP, they just booked her, and she effectively invited them in. They don't need a warrant if you invite them in.

In any case if they have reports of prostitution in your apartment it won't take them very long to get a warrant.
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No they didn't book her, they knocked on the door and when she opened they went in without being invited. That was in a hotel room, so may be the room itself is not considered a temporary property of the SP even if she paid the 'rent'.
 
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icespot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2005
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+1

There is no reason a police officer should ever enter a dwelling without a warrant or proper grounds.

You don't even have to answer the door for them.

Let's say the neighbor made up the allegations and called 911 saying he heard something like an assault.

Police will show up and investigate. You don't open the door they can kick it open.

However, after they see that there us no offense going on they have to pay to repair your door.

That is as long as you are doing nothing wrong.

Because same scenario they kick in the door because of the 911 call and no one answered the door. When they enter they find coke on the counter. In that case they can arrest you and charge for the cocaine. However, before further searching if all people are secure they most get a warrant to search for additional drugs. They can't just start searching with out a warrant.
firstr8guy said:
They need a warrant to enter you're home unless you allow them in. The only exception is if they are in fresh pursuit or the exigent circumstance
"The exigent circumstance doctrine provides that when probable cause has been established to believe that evidence will be removed or destroyed before a warrant can be obtained, a warrantless search and seizure can be justified. As many courts have noted, the need for the exigent circumstance doctrine is particularly compelling in narcotics cases, because contraband and records can be easily and quickly destroyed while a search is progressing. Police officers relying on this exception must demonstrate an objectively reasonable basis for deciding that immediate action is required.

Your gangbang wouldn't qualify
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scourge

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Sep 1, 2002
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firstr8guy said:
They need a warrant to enter you're home unless you allow them in. The only exception is if they are in fresh pursuit or the exigent circumstance
"The exigent circumstance doctrine provides that when probable cause has been established to believe that evidence will be removed or destroyed before a warrant can be obtained, a warrantless search and seizure can be justified. As many courts have noted, the need for the exigent circumstance doctrine is particularly compelling in narcotics cases, because contraband and records can be easily and quickly destroyed while a search is progressing. Police officers relying on this exception must demonstrate an objectively reasonable basis for deciding that immediate action is required.

Your gangbang wouldn't qualify
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Just one more part to this before they enter with your permission they have to make you aware of they jeopardy the entry will put you in, that is to say that they must explain that if they find what they are ostensibly looking for or any other criminal activity you will be arrested, otherwise it is not a lawful entry.
 
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wilbur

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Jan 19, 2004
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scourge said:
Just one more part to this before they enter with your permission they have to make you aware of they jeopardy the entry will put you in, that is to say that they must explain that if they find what they are ostensibly looking for or any other criminal activity you will be arrested, otherwise it is not a lawful entry.
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Don't think so. A police officer may ask you if he can enter your residence, and he does not have to caution you. That may be simply because he's standing in the rain. But while inside after you invite him in, if he sees something illegal, then it's his duty to enforce the law. A usual case would be a pot plant or drug paraphenalia. Lawyers always advise to discuss any matters outside your house, not inside... unless they have a warrant, of course.
 
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scourge

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The courts have held that concent is not concent, unless it is informed consent. A policeman entering you home who has already formed the grounds for arrest has to tell you so, not ask to use the wash room & then put the cuffs on you, you have to understand fully just what your concenting to.
The plain sight doctrine will always apply, but that was not really what I was getting at with my post.
 
oldjones

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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wilbur said:
Don't think so. A police officer may ask you if he can enter your residence, and he does not have to caution you. That may be simply because he's standing in the rain. But while inside after you invite him in, if he sees something illegal, then it's his duty to enforce the law. A usual case would be a pot plant or drug paraphenalia. Lawyers always advise to discuss any matters outside your house, not inside... unless they have a warrant, of course.
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Which is the sort of plain Common Sense that underlies the Common Law: You don't get a bye from the authorities just because you invited them. wilbur's point might apply in some sort of bargaining about entry; if you were persuaded they'd just be back with that warrant and said, 'Wothehell" on the basis you'd be fucked sooner or later, you might try to argue they had some overriding duty to tell you what danger/what to clean up before you let them outta the rain.

But I'd bet the judge would say you hadda ask first.
 
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