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What impact does C36 have on Sugar Daddy websites like Seeking Arrangements?

theycallmebruce

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Nov 17, 2002
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So I was thinking, does C36 make Sugar Daddy websites a criminal offense? Will law enforcement be looking to shut them out of Canada?
 

op12

Active member
Oct 19, 2004
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I doubt very much that this area can be touched. C-36 cannot make giving your girlfriend money a criminal offense. Some relationships are more obviously about money and some are less. I believe a conviction in this type of human relationship would be exceedingly difficult to obtain.
 

fuji

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I doubt very much that this area can be touched. C-36 cannot make giving your girlfriend money a criminal offense.
A sugar babe is not your girlfriend. You are clearly paying her for sex. You can pretend it's something else but we all know you are pretending -- you are asking about it because you're looking for a way to pay for sex without getting caught. Everybody knows that.

Moreover, consider that a lot of the women on those sites are not pro's, they're just randoms. And they may have regrets after they fuck for money, and if they do have regrets about it they may do bad shit crazy things like go to the police and confess everything they've done in some pathetic quest for redemption (or to put on a show of seeking redemption for their pissed off parents/bf/whoever) one which will result in the crown having the world's easiest case against you with your former sugar babe as the star witness for the prosecution crying on the stand about how you corrupted her and paid her for sex and how awful she feels.

Stick with a pro who is much more likely to be sure what she's doing, have clients to lose if she does crazy shit, etc.

A lot of people seem to forget that aspect of C36: That the woman you pay for sex can turn around and testify in court against you without incriminating herself because it's legal for her, while criminal for you. An escort making a career out of sex for money isn't likely to do that -- she would destroy her own business -- but who the hell knows what some random on seeking arrangements will do. In certain ways this makes the legal situation in Canada dramatically different than in the US, where the prostitute can't testify against you without incriminating herself.
 

bobcat40

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Jan 25, 2006
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A sugar babe is not your girlfriend. You are clearly paying her for sex. You can pretend it's something else but we all know you are pretending -- you are asking about it because you're looking for a way to pay for sex without getting caught. Everybody knows that.

Moreover, consider that a lot of the women on those sites are not pro's, they're just randoms. And they may have regrets after they fuck for money, and if they do have regrets about it they may do bad shit crazy things like go to the police and confess everything they've done in some pathetic quest for redemption (or to put on a show of seeking redemption for their pissed off parents/bf/whoever) one which will result in the crown having the world's easiest case against you with your former sugar babe as the star witness for the prosecution crying on the stand about how you corrupted her and paid her for sex and how awful she feels.

Stick with a pro who is much more likely to be sure what she's doing, have clients to lose if she does crazy shit, etc.

A lot of people seem to forget that aspect of C36: That the woman you pay for sex can turn around and testify in court against you without incriminating herself because it's legal for her, while criminal for you. An escort making a career out of sex for money isn't likely to do that -- she would destroy her own business -- but who the hell knows what some random on seeking arrangements will do. In certain ways this makes the legal situation in Canada dramatically different than in the US, where the prostitute can't testify against you without incriminating herself.
Huh? Your now saying "sugar babies" are now illegal?? You've gotta be joking right? The idea is that such relationships transcend just paying for sex - it is a relationship based on mutual needs. Pretty much the same as any other relationship. Some people need love, some people need companionship, some people need money lol
 

GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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Huh? Your now saying "sugar babies" are now illegal?? You've gotta be joking right? The idea is that such relationships transcend just paying for sex - it is a relationship based on mutual needs. Pretty much the same as any other relationship. Some people need love, some people need companionship, some people need money lol
I think seeking new or unknown gals who are sugar-baby wannabees is riskier in exactly the way Fuji has described it under a C36 regime.

Eg.

I abandoned a PT SB in 2012 (she was expecting some money for a Las Vegas trip with her friends). She was a little upset with me (I'm usually generous to a fault, but didn't this one time - long story). If it was in a C36 era, I would've left her $500-$600 under the same circumstances, save and except for explicitly asking for a BJ before hitting the road, and THEN diplomatically disassociating or distancing myself.

Under C-36, the dynamics change if you are with an unstable or vindictive person.
 

vwdub

Member
Apr 20, 2013
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If sugar babies are illegal than this can be extended to include all those relationships where a guy makes materially more than his gf or fiance. It also would extend to all those cases of gold digging material focused gfs (madonna told us we are living in a material world). Is Archie going to jail in next weeks edition of pals and gals? It seems like in each book Archie must buy Veronica gifts and treat her to milkshakes in order to secure a date.

Obviously if you walk up to a girl off the bat and say "i will give you x dollars for sex", that's a different story.


But in the case of a much less income earning girlfriend or just a bitchy gf who is mainly with her bf because he funds her and her friends drinks at a bar, in the case of a bad breakup, could she say "he paid me for sex" and then - tada! Criminal record?
 

fuji

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Huh? Your now saying "sugar babies" are now illegal?? You've gotta be joking right?
Yes. It's absolutely illegal under C36. Nobody here on terb is under any illusions what you are really paying that sugar babe for. No judge and jury is going to have any difficulty figuring it out either. It is really not the same as a guy dating a girl who makes less than he does, and everybody here on terb knows that. Every judge, and every juror, knows that.

It's cash for sex. That's illegal.

Would the police go to the trouble of a big investigation to catch one guy? Probably not. But if the evidence fell into their lap, say your sugar babe flipped out and confessed everything, then you go to jail.
 

fuji

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If sugar babies are illegal than this can be extended to include all those relationships where a guy makes materially more than his gf or fiance.
No, that is completely different. The little bit about the cash being paid for sex being the difference. When you earn more than your girlfriend you really are not paying her for sex, and everybody on any jury is going to know that. You are being ridiculous.
 

wangbang

Camel Toad
Nov 19, 2007
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The next SB who gets cash and reports it on her tax return will be the first one. If she can't document the cash then it is he said, she said.
 

Bickle

Member
May 1, 2007
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Well, waiters are expected to report tips, but aren't required to submit documentation I think.
 

op12

Active member
Oct 19, 2004
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Some good points made above but to obtain a conviction a court needs evidence. Her witness statements against yours won't go very far (he said/she said) unless there is evidence from recordings, emails or texts.

So be very careful when talking on the phone, emailing or texting.

Sexy talk is okay but you saying give me sex and I will pay your rent in a recordable format is dumb.
 

vwdub

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Apr 20, 2013
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I am quite certain that police / court will look at multiple factors IF a sugar baby or independent or mean ex-gf were to use a line like "he paid me for sex" to get the guy in trouble. If you've got evidence of a pretty good relationship or whatever going on for months and it's clear that both sides of the party are doing just fine and both are agreeing to it and then out of nowhere she resorts to extortion to get you to pay a big sum of money.... they are not going to ignore that history. It will mean something.

I don't think the purpose of c36 is to help such individuals screw over someone's life just because they feel like it. Maybe if it was all part of some bigger scenario, like if the guy was abusive or if something like drugs were involved, then maybe a case could be made to apply other charges.

A girl 'outing' the guy would also have to understand that her whole family and friends are going to also be made aware of the fact that she was on the site and had months and months of this going on and then on a whim randomly decided to screw a guys life over.
 

fuji

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The next SB who gets cash and reports it on her tax return will be the first one. If she can't document the cash then it is he said, she said.
You tried that argument on another thread and it was pointed out that her tax penalties, even with the 1% per month compounding penalty that CRA slaps on, are likely going to be in the hundreds of dollars at most. Not exactly going to stop her from turning you in to the police.

And it isn't just "he said, she said" if she has emails, texts, your PM's from "seeking arrangements", to back up what she said. Even the fact that you contacted her through a site like that is going to give a hell of a lot of weight to what she said.

Again, you underestimate the power of the crown to convict you on circumstantial evidence.
 

fuji

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I am quite certain that police / court will look at multiple factors IF a sugar baby or independent or mean ex-gf were to use a line like "he paid me for sex" to get the guy in trouble. If you've got evidence of a pretty good relationship or whatever going on for months and it's clear that both sides of the party are doing just fine and both are agreeing to it and then out of nowhere she resorts to extortion to get you to pay a big sum of money.... they are not going to ignore that history. It will mean something.

I don't think the purpose of c36 is to help such individuals screw over someone's life just because they feel like it. Maybe if it was all part of some bigger scenario, like if the guy was abusive or if something like drugs were involved, then maybe a case could be made to apply other charges.

A girl 'outing' the guy would also have to understand that her whole family and friends are going to also be made aware of the fact that she was on the site and had months and months of this going on and then on a whim randomly decided to screw a guys life over.
You are failing to grok how this happens: Her family/friends find out what she did, THEN she goes to the police, under pressure to do so from her parents/boyfriend and/or as part of a big show to win back their trust by showing that she has been born again as a virtuous person, and her wayward behavior was all due to the slimy and corrupt influence you had on her, dazzling a poor young naive girl with your thousands of dollars and coercing her into despicable behavior, etc., she goes around pleading victim, painting you as manipulative, and claiming to all her friends/family that she was brainwashed by you, and ruthlessly attacks you and paints you in the worst possible light to try and make herself look like the victim and cover up the fact that it was probably all her idea.

Of course it's all a BS show to shore up her social status, but it will get you convicted nonetheless.
 

vwdub

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Apr 20, 2013
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You are failing to grok how this happens: Her family/friends find out what she did, THEN she goes to the police, under pressure to do so from her parents/boyfriend and/or as part of a big show to win back their trust by showing that she has been born again as a virtuous person, and her wayward behavior was all due to the slimy and corrupt influence you had on her, dazzling a poor young naive girl with your thousands of dollars and coercing her into despicable behavior, etc., she goes around pleading victim, painting you as manipulative, and claiming to all her friends/family that she was brainwashed by you, and ruthlessly attacks you and paints you in the worst possible light to try and make herself look like the victim and cover up the fact that it was probably all her idea.

Of course it's all a BS show to shore up her social status, but it will get you convicted nonetheless.
Lol! Hilarious. Not only are the chances of this scenario slim, it overlooks the fact that she signed up out of her own free will looking for something. Usually the girl even types in the exact amount and why. It's not like some strange old wealthy man approaching a girl out of nowhere impressing a girl with money who otherwise would never have been looking for this.

Seriously.... Brainwashing??
 

wangbang

Camel Toad
Nov 19, 2007
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You tried that argument on another thread and it was pointed out that her tax penalties, even with the 1% per month compounding penalty that CRA slaps on, are likely going to be in the hundreds of dollars at most. Not exactly going to stop her from turning you in to the police.
And you, again, overlook the fact that tax evasion is a criminal conviction regardless of the amount of penalties.
 

fuji

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Lol! Hilarious. Not only are the chances of this scenario slim, it overlooks the fact that she signed up out of her own free will looking for something. Usually the girl even types in the exact amount and why. It's not like some strange old wealthy man approaching a girl out of nowhere impressing a girl with money who otherwise would never have been looking for this.

Seriously.... Brainwashing??
You know that if a court believes everything you just wrote you get sent to prison, right?
 

fuji

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And you, again, overlook the fact that tax evasion is a criminal conviction regardless of the amount of penalties.
You might want to look into the disposition of actual CRA cases. The reality is she will pay a few hundred dollars in penalties and nothing more.
 

bluecolt

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2011
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fuji,

You know not of what you speak. As someone who is actually in the tax business, the penalties are generally 50% of the tax owing plus penalties. Hence, if you knowingly did not declare income three years ago, your penalties and interest will be equal to the income tax owing. Additionally, the taxpayer will also need to pay considerable fees for legal and tax representation .Also, the Canada Revenue Nazis may press to have you convicted criminally.
 
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