Toronto Escorts

C36 and undercover police stings

Yoga Face

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Before C36 it was illegal to solicit so undercover female cops had to trick the John to make the first offer

So, a wise John never made the first offer. If she made the offer she was not a cop


Now, as soliciting is legal, at least for the girl, can cops make the first offer ??? :confused:
 

Viggo Rasmussen

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Before C36 it was illegal to solicit so undercover female cops had to trick the John to make the first offer

So, a wise John never made the first offer. If she made the offer she was not a cop


Now, as soliciting is legal, at least for the girl, can cops make the first offer ??? :confused:
I think the backpage ad they might use in a sting operation would have their offer in writing. Cops wouldn't be above entrapment, I'd be wary of any meeting where you didn't know a bit about the escort beforehand.
 

Hard Idle

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I think C36 would make stings easier, but I don't see any extra enforcement tools for deals made verbally weather it is on the street or in club or elsewhere the parties can make arrangements face to face. Someone still has to be close enough to overhear, if not record the transaction otherwise they don't have anything except the general observation that two people met, seemed to exchange words and walked away together, or decided to share a cab. Where is the evidence of anything resembling an offence under any law?
 

dirkd101

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Sep 29, 2005
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^^^ except for the fact that the police know that the woman you are talking to is a provider. This is something that they have entered in their data base when they visited her just to ask her if she is an unwilling participant in the trade after they identified her through a time and tested investigative tool, by observing her and recording the comings and going of several different men to her location. Connecting the dots is much easier then, they know your not just there for the conversation.
 

Veronica27

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Strip Clubs the Only Way in 2015. Enjoy it This Week.

I was wondering if paying for a nude strip dance would still be legal , can you ask her to start with a strip dance. If she takes off her clothes, then it's unlikely to be undercover cop. If not they cannot charge you for soliciting a strip dance.
That's where I will be headed for any action starting next week. No more escorts. Too risky. As I said before, I got lucky and didn't get caught in the Delux raid in Markham, and I have no desire to find myself in a cop car at this point in my life. John
 

Hard Idle

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^^^ except for the fact that the police know that the woman you are talking to is a provider. This is something that they have entered in their data base when they visited her just to ask her if she is an unwilling participant in the trade after they identified her through a time and tested investigative tool, by observing her and recording the comings and going of several different men to her location. Connecting the dots is much easier then, they know your not just there for the conversation.
So because somebody was suspected of being a prostitute once, they are automatically up-converted to known prostitute for the rest of their lives and every contact they have with another person is probably a sex transaction?

That's like if you had a speeding ticket 1994, the cops can go to your driveway and if they observed you parking your car in the driveway, they can issue you a speeding ticket because you've been a speeder in the past??

It might get by one or two judges who are life long anti-prostitution activists for whom it was their very motivation for getting through Law School, but I seriously doubt enough judges will swallow that to improve the prospects for conviction over the old law which LE had more or less given up prosecuting.
 

trtinajax

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I think C36 would make stings easier, but I don't see any extra enforcement tools for deals made verbally weather it is on the street or in club or elsewhere the parties can make arrangements face to face. Someone still has to be close enough to overhear, if not record the transaction otherwise they don't have anything except the general observation that two people met, seemed to exchange words and walked away together, or decided to share a cab. Where is the evidence of anything resembling an offence under any law?
Doesn't this happen nightly in thousands of bars across Canada as two people hookup?
 

legmann

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Dec 2, 2001
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So because somebody was suspected of being a prostitute once, they are automatically up-converted to known prostitute for the rest of their lives and every contact they have with another person is probably a sex transaction?
Good point. Not entirely reasonable.
 

dirkd101

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Sep 29, 2005
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So because somebody was suspected of being a prostitute once, they are automatically up-converted to known prostitute for the rest of their lives and every contact they have with another person is probably a sex transaction?

That's like if you had a speeding ticket 1994, the cops can go to your driveway and if they observed you parking your car in the driveway, they can issue you a speeding ticket because you've been a speeder in the past??

It might get by one or two judges who are life long anti-prostitution activists for whom it was their very motivation for getting through Law School, but I seriously doubt enough judges will swallow that to improve the prospects for conviction over the old law which LE had more or less given up prosecuting.
Recent events happening in Durham Region tell a different story. Police have booked ladies and then revealed themselves at the door once opened. Officers enter and have already done background work with the manager, finding out her name and address and they obviously book the girl through her site or ad. Once in the room there is no pretext, they tell the girl why they are there and go through a series of questions with her. They have now confirmed a known provider. All pertinent information is entered into a data base. Now, while it's not a crime to be a provider, it is a crime to be a consumer. Ergo, they have a starting point for laying charges on any unlucky consumer that they catch. Just what evidence or how they are going to collect it is the unknown, but they will sort this out over time.
 

Hard Idle

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... Police have booked ladies and then revealed themselves at the door once opened. Officers enter and have already done background work with the manager, finding out her name and address and they obviously book the girl through her site or ad. Once in the room there is no pretext, they tell the girl why they are there and go through a series of questions with her. They have now confirmed a known provider.
OK. I'm still waiting waiting for the part where anyone receives a sexual service as a condition of payment.:frusty:

Heaven help us if our legal system is satisfied with this standard of evidence to make a conviction. It seems to be a lot closer to the standard needed to convict under a Sharia court in Waziristan or Sudan than any system with a presumption of innocence. "Trusted elder saw Man & Woman who weren't married walk together into a building...what else is there to know, they're obviously committing adultery ... "
 

fuji

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Hard Idle, people are convicted all the time on circumstantial evidence. Some people here on terb have watched too much CSI and have unrealistic ideas about what courts actually consider a "reasonable doubt".

Now certainly just because a woman was a prostitute back in 1995 doesn't mean you conversation with her today is about prostitution -- but on the other hand, the police don't have to have forensic proof of every step of the transaction either. They can indeed fill in the gaps with circumstantial evidence and Canadian judges and juries will happily convict on that kind of evidence.
 

Hard Idle

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Hard Idle, people are convicted all the time on circumstantial evidence....
the police don't have to have forensic proof of every step of the transaction either. They can indeed fill in the gaps with circumstantial evidence and Canadian judges and juries will happily convict on that kind of evidence.
Here is what they SHOULD need to connect the dots and proceed beyond a preliminary hearing: In lieu of proof that the accused went through with the act, they should have sworn testimony from other recent customers that they purchased sex or fetish services from that same provider at a similar price and through the same booking channel as the accused.

Sadly, I realize they will probably find such testimony. I have no doubt that for every agency or MP there will be a couple of miserable haters who will volunteer to collaborate with the enemy just to spite some SP who wouldn't give them the discount they wanted or all the YMMV menu items they felt they were entitled to. We read posts from such candidates every week. But at least the courts should insist on that.

If you could get convictions on people because they "look" and "behave" like drug delers, or ammunition dealers, or stolen electronics dealers, we could triple the prison population in a year. How do you explain guys that EVERYBODY knows are criminals being able to do their business daily from the same park, courtyard or parking lot under the noses of passing police cruisers??? It must be that without catching them red-handed or getting corroborating evidence, Police know that arresting & charging them would be a waste of time.

Is our society & legal system really sick enough to grant more flexibility to convict Johns than gangsters or terrorists?
 

bobcat40

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Jan 25, 2006
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It's doubtful a lap dance will be something cops will be looking to charge. Imagine the negative publicity the police force will face. I can just imagine the headline "Man is arrested for receiving a Lap Dance". That is just plain stupid and the liberal media will be all over the police force.
 

GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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That's where I will be headed for any action starting next week. No more escorts. Too risky. As I said before, I got lucky and didn't get caught in the Delux raid in Markham, and I have no desire to find myself in a cop car at this point in my life. John
You should know that the government's Technical Paper for C-36 alluded to the court definition of a sexual service which includes a lap dance.

Therefore, for $20, you can buy a criminal record.
 

fuji

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Right cuz that's the same. Lmao.
It's exactly the same. Same court. Same criminal system. Same standard of evidence. It's just a different charge. But the court will operate in exactly the same way, and accept circumstantial evidence for exactly the same reasons.
 

MPAsquared

www.musemassagespa.com
It's exactly the same. Same court. Same criminal system. Same standard of evidence. It's just a different charge. But the court will operate in exactly the same way, and accept circumstantial evidence for exactly the same reasons.
Ummm, it's not even close to the same. Terrorists & gangsters. Seriously?! You're literally trying to tell people that enforcement's tactics for catching a terrorist & catching a dude who wants to bust a nut are the same?!?! You are hilarious!!!
 

fuji

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Yes, I am telling you that the standard of evidence used in a Canadian criminal court is exactly the same regardless of whether you have been charged with shoplifting or murder.

In particular: "Gangsters and terrorists tend to be convicted using circumstantial evidence too."

So are shoplifters, and so will be people charged under C36.
 

MPAsquared

www.musemassagespa.com
Yes, I am telling you that the standard of evidence used in a Canadian criminal court is exactly the same regardless of whether you have been charged with shoplifting or murder.

In particular: "Gangsters and terrorists tend to be convicted using circumstantial evidence too."

So are shoplifters, and so will be people charged under C36.
What kind of shop lifting have you been around?!? Blahahahaha! Fuji, you are hilarious! And bat shit crazy.
 
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