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booboobear

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Just won $ 120 the second time I played craps. Has anyone played craps and played blackjack , how would you rate the 2 games as far as your luck . Craps seemed like a lot more fun .
 

1HandInMyPocket

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I've played both before, but I prefer poker.

As I stated in another thread about blackjack, some people get really upset if you play differently than their supposedly proper way of playing. I don't like this sort of conflict or pressure.

Now for craps, you would think that your bets have no direct effect on the outcome when someone else is rolling? But apparently it does. I noticed this guy keeped on rolling, after making a point, and not hitting 7. So say he made a point of 5, well he rolled 6's, 8's etc several times without hitting his 5 again. So I think, I'll bet the come line to try to double my money. I put down $25, and he yells at me saying I want him to crap out. Well, guess what, he rolls a 7 on the next roll. He grabs the rest of his chips, says to me, it's because of you I lost $X grand in Vegas and walks away. WTF.

When I go the casino I want to have fun. In poker your playing against other people (not the casino) and are expected to try to make others lose their money. In games like BJ and craps, people get upset if you interfer with their gambling.

But back to your original question, I believe craps is more fun and more profitable in the long run (don't know about luck) With craps you can hedge your bets to protect yourself. Booboobear, do you play just the pass/come lines or do you know how to play the more complicated bets, eg proposition bets?
 

booboobear

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1HandInMyPocket said:
I've played both before, but I prefer poker.

As I stated in another thread about blackjack, some people get really upset if you play differently than their supposedly proper way of playing. I don't like this sort of conflict or pressure.

Now for craps, you would think that your bets have no direct effect on the outcome when someone else is rolling? But apparently it does. I noticed this guy keeped on rolling, after making a point, and not hitting 7. So say he made a point of 5, well he rolled 6's, 8's etc several times without hitting his 5 again. So I think, I'll bet the come line to try to double my money. I put down $25, and he yells at me saying I want him to crap out. Well, guess what, he rolls a 7 on the next roll. He grabs the rest of his chips, says to me, it's because of you I lost $X grand in Vegas and walks away. WTF.

When I go the casino I want to have fun. In poker your playing against other people (not the casino) and are expected to try to make others lose their money. In games like BJ and craps, people get upset if you interfer with their gambling.

But back to your original question, I believe craps is more fun and more profitable in the long run (don't know about luck) With craps you can hedge your bets to protect yourself. Booboobear, do you play just the pass/come lines or do you know how to play the more complicated bets, eg proposition bets?

Hi Yes it's funny about gambling I know what you mean about b jack and some people getting upset , drives me crazy also . If I can now I try to play one on one with a dealer . I had a guy ask me if I would get upset if he hit a certain hand , it was just me and him and I said you play your hand the way you want don't worry about me , he busted anyway .Sometimes I find people funny when you don't hit a hand they think you should according to the stats and you lose they say see you should have hit , like every other card will follow the rules ., but when you follow th rules and bust they don't get the point that rules are based on extremely small differences . As far as youR crap experience I think that guy was nuts and an exception . There is absoloutely no way what you bet affects his roll if he thinks so it is strictly wild mumbo jumbo . Since I just started I am only playing the pass line , field and numbers . I didn't quite get the fire bets , what is a come bet ? Sun was my very first day and I had a lot of fun.
 

BottomsUp

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I used to play blackjack all the time and became very irritated at these complete morons who believe that if you don't follow the basic strategy, it screws the entire hand for everyone. Fact is there is no more or less chance of a favourable card being dealt whether you hit, stand, double, etc. Way too many total idiots playing this game to get any enjoyment. So now I play high limit slots. No assholes to deal with...just asshole machines.lol.
 

homonger

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booboobear said:
Just won $ 120 the second time I played craps. Has anyone played craps and played blackjack , how would you rate the 2 games as far as your luck . Craps seemed like a lot more fun .
I've played tons of craps and blackjack (and poker) in my day and the best days I've ever had at a casino in terms of $ profit have been from playing craps. Most gambling books will tell you that the best 3 games in the casino from a house edge standpoint are craps, BJ, and baccarat. Video poker can also be good too, if you play basic strategy and find a machine with decent payouts.

In my mind, BJ is a "beatable" game. If you know basic strategy and if you assume the house rules are decent (never play at a BJ table that does not pay 3-2 on blackjack--that gives the house too much of an edge), you are only facing a house edge of about 0.5%. If you can count cards, you might actually then have an edge of about 0.5 to 1%.

There is no edge to be found in craps, however. The house edge at craps is about 1.4%, but that applies only to pass, don't pass, and come bets. Always look for a table that allows the maximum odds behind your pass line bet. That is where you can shave the house edge. Bet as little as you can on the pass line and put as many odds behind it as you can afford and the house allows. This is because you get paid true odds on your behind the pass line bets. There is no other bet in the casino where you can get true odds.

If you stick to the basic bets, i.e., pass, don't pass, and come, and max your odds bets, you're doing all you can to keep yourself in the running. Avoid all the center bets that the stickman hawks. They are all sucker bets in that you are not paid anything close to true odds if they hit. That said, I do like to toss in a chip to the middle and play a hard 8 or a horn high yo now and then, but that is just for fun, and I only do that if I am up comfortably.

As far as the come bet goes, this is one of my favorite bets. This is how it works... let's say the shooter has established a point of 6. You have your pass line bet out there of $10, so you put $50 behind the pass line for odds. If you then put $10 in the come area, you are basically making a 2nd pass line bet and it makes the next roll a come out roll essentially for you. You'll get paid on the come bet if the shooter rolls a 7 or an 11 (but you don't want a 7, duh). You'll lose your come bet if the shooter rolls craps (2, 3 or 12). But if there is no 2, 3, 7. 11, or 12, whatever the shooter rolls next becomes your personal point. So if the shooter then rolls a 9, the dealer moves your come bet to the 9, and then you can put odds on it, just like a pass line bet. Let's say you put $40 on it. If the shooter then rolls an 8, you win $10 for your pass line bet and $60 for your odds bet. Your come bet on the 9 stays out there. If the shooter rolls another 9, you'll win $10 for your come bet and $60 for your odds bet. You can bet the come as much as you want, and have all the numbers covered potentially. But, of course, if the shooter rolls a 7, you lose it all, although you do get paid $10 if you have a come bet out there.

If a shooter has a nice long roll, you will make more playing the come bet than if you just covered the numbers with place bets. This is because place bets are not paid at true odds. Of course, you potentially also have more to lose if you play the come because you'll probably have more money on the table.

I personally find craps to be the most fun game at the casino. If the table is doing well, there is a lot of camraderie. You can make a ton of money very quickly, and let's face it, it's a lot of fun to roll the dice. But if the table is not going well, it is like death warmed over. It's brutal and no one is very happy. But all it takes is a couple of good shooters and it becomes fun again.
 

booboobear

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homonger said:
I've played tons of craps and blackjack (and poker) in my day and the best days I've ever had at a casino in terms of $ profit have been from playing craps. Most gambling books will tell you that the best 3 games in the casino from a house edge standpoint are craps, BJ, and baccarat. Video poker can also be good too, if you play basic strategy and find a machine with decent payouts.

In my mind, BJ is a "beatable" game. If you know basic strategy and if you assume the house rules are decent (never play at a BJ table that does not pay 3-2 on blackjack--that gives the house too much of an edge), you are only facing a house edge of about 0.5%. If you can count cards, you might actually then have an edge of about 0.5 to 1%.

There is no edge to be found in craps, however. The house edge at craps is about 1.4%, but that applies only to pass, don't pass, and come bets. Always look for a table that allows the maximum odds behind your pass line bet. That is where you can shave the house edge. Bet as little as you can on the pass line and put as many odds behind it as you can afford and the house allows. This is because you get paid true odds on your behind the pass line bets. There is no other bet in the casino where you can get true odds.

If you stick to the basic bets, i.e., pass, don't pass, and come, and max your odds bets, you're doing all you can to keep yourself in the running. Avoid all the center bets that the stickman hawks. They are all sucker bets in that you are not paid anything close to true odds if they hit. That said, I do like to toss in a chip to the middle and play a hard 8 or a horn high yo now and then, but that is just for fun, and I only do that if I am up comfortably.

As far as the come bet goes, this is one of my favorite bets. This is how it works... let's say the shooter has established a point of 6. You have your pass line bet out there of $10, so you put $50 behind the pass line for odds. If you then put $10 in the come area, you are basically making a 2nd pass line bet and it makes the next roll a come out roll essentially for you. You'll get paid on the come bet if the shooter rolls a 7 or an 11 (but you don't want a 7, duh). You'll lose your come bet if the shooter rolls craps (2, 3 or 12). But if there is no 2, 3, 7. 11, or 12, whatever the shooter rolls next becomes your personal point. So if the shooter then rolls a 9, the dealer moves your come bet to the 9, and then you can put odds on it, just like a pass line bet. Let's say you put $40 on it. If the shooter then rolls an 8, you win $10 for your pass line bet and $60 for your odds bet. Your come bet on the 9 stays out there. If the shooter rolls another 9, you'll win $10 for your come bet and $60 for your odds bet. You can bet the come as much as you want, and have all the numbers covered potentially. But, of course, if the shooter rolls a 7, you lose it all, although you do get paid $10 if you have a come bet out there.

If a shooter has a nice long roll, you will make more playing the come bet than if you just covered the numbers with place bets. This is because place bets are not paid at true odds. Of course, you potentially also have more to lose if you play the come because you'll probably have more money on the table.

I personally find craps to be the most fun game at the casino. If the table is doing well, there is a lot of camraderie. You can make a ton of money very quickly, and let's face it, it's a lot of fun to roll the dice. But if the table is not going well, it is like death warmed over. It's brutal and no one is very happy. But all it takes is a couple of good shooters and it becomes fun again.


Thanks for the explanation , don't you mean if the shooter rolls a 6 though not 8 after you make your point of 9 . What do you think of the field bet ? It seems to me it's a good idea not to have 2 many place bets out or maybe have several but if you hit one pull the others in case 7 comes up , do you agree ?
 

homonger

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booboobear said:
Thanks for the explanation , don't you mean if the shooter rolls a 6 though not 8 after you make your point of 9 . What do you think of the field bet ? It seems to me it's a good idea not to have 2 many place bets out or maybe have several but if you hit one pull the others in case 7 comes up , do you agree ?
Yes, my mistake, in my little scenario, the shooter had a point of 6, not 8.

The field bet is not consider a good bet by most experts because again, you are not getting true odds, and the house edge is about 5% on that bet. I don't think it is an awful bet, but the point is, there are better bets on the table.

Craps is a game of timing, full of fortuitous but also missed opportunities. I see a lot of guys pull their bets down in the middle of a roll, and then kick themselves when their numbers come up again. On the other hand, if the shooter does 7 out, you feel like a genius. My overall feeling is that craps is a high risk, high reward game, and you can make a lot of money if you stick it out behind a hot shooter. But there is nothing wrong with taking your money and putting it your pocket either.
 

booboobear

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homonger said:
Yes, my mistake, in my little scenario, the shooter had a point of 6, not 8.

The field bet is not consider a good bet by most experts because again, you are not getting true odds, and the house edge is about 5% on that bet. I don't think it is an awful bet, but the point is, there are better bets on the table.

Craps is a game of timing, full of fortuitous but also missed opportunities. I see a lot of guys pull their bets down in the middle of a roll, and then kick themselves when their numbers come up again. On the other hand, if the shooter does 7 out, you feel like a genius. My overall feeling is that craps is a high risk, high reward game, and you can make a lot of money if you stick it out behind a hot shooter. But there is nothing wrong with taking your money and putting it your pocket either.

It's all true my man I guess the more place bets you make the better your hots if you have good rolls but then again there is more on the line if a seven comes up.
Thats why I was thinking of betting a more numbers initiall for the first rolls then withdrawing some. Of course the way our minds work if the number you pulled comes up then it's " I should have " . I find that's the tough part of any game like b jack or craps to be satisfied with smaller gradual wins.
 

homonger

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booboobear said:
It's all true my man I guess the more place bets you make the better your hots if you have good rolls but then again there is more on the line if a seven comes up.
Thats why I was thinking of betting a more numbers initiall for the first rolls then withdrawing some. Of course the way our minds work if the number you pulled comes up then it's " I should have " . I find that's the tough part of any game like b jack or craps to be satisfied with smaller gradual wins.
The thing with craps is, it's not an question of "if" a 7 gets rolled, it's a matter of "when". I personally don't like to mess with my bets during a roll, but you can't argue with making a little vs. losing a lot. Like I said, it's all timing. The trick is to have a lot of money on the table when the shooter is hot, and to minimize your losses when the shooter is not, and if anyone could figure that out, there'd be professional craps players (and they're aren't any).
 
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1HandInMyPocket

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booboobear said:
Since I just started I am only playing the pass line , field and numbers . I didn't quite get the fire bets , what is a come bet ? Sun was my very first day and I had a lot of fun.
some vids to help you boo in case you didn't know. I also recommend getting a craps book to help you learn a bit more if you're really interest in continuing to play craps. I think I may want to try to play again. The book I have is "Gamble to Win Craps" by R. D. Ellison. Never finished reading the book so can't comment on it yet, but it did help me learn the basics though I did have some problems reading the more complicated parts.

video on betting on place bets 6 & 8.

video about bad bets, what homonger was talking about.
 

baci2004

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At the range!!!
As Homie has stated the pass-line bet is the best; It is also the best bet in the whole casino...fairest anyway.
When I was a newbie I would play the numbers, often across, looking for the big pay-off. After many sessions I concluded that the pass line bet coupled with a few, sometimes more come bets is the only way to go. That being said I will play the numbers from time to time just to mix it up a bit if things aren't going my way.

Some other thoughts....

As Homie also stated, always play the lowest limit table with the best odds. Our casinos give 3,4,5 x odds throughout Ontario. Some of the downtown casinos in Vegas offer 200 x odds to attract players; I can't remember (Homie?) at which odds point that the house edge completely disolves but it is much less than 200 x. At any rate it is important to know that even if the house gives up their edge on the pass line you are still fighting an uphill battle when playing craps. Simply because it's a difficult game to win at even if it is played totally fair/ no edge....the seven comes up once in five rolls.

If you can't get on the lowest limit table, ($5 daytime, slow nights or $10 anytime) and are compelled to play on a $15 or $25 able it's not a bad idea to hedge your pass line bet with an 'any craps' bet.

Also....if a hottie steps up to the table and claims she has never played before....hit the ATM!!! Hot newbies never lose...It's not in the book but it's a fact.:D
 

homonger

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baci2004 said:
I can't remember (Homie?) at which odds point that the house edge completely disolves but it is much less than 200 x.

Also....if a hottie steps up to the table and claims she has never played before....hit the ATM!!! Hot newbies never lose...It's not in the book but it's a fact.:D
The house edge never dissolves completely, but here are some stats I just looked up. The standard house edge on the pass line bet is 1.41%. If you put 1x odds, it goes down to 0.85%. At 2x, it is 0.61%, and at 5x, it is 0.32%. It gets microscopic at 100x... 0.02%. Even with as little as 5x though, you're gonna face a house edge which is better than anything else you're gonna find in a casino.

The funny thing about craps is that is full of superstitions. For example, if someone is having a good roll, you are supposed to collect your chips and get your next bets down as quickly as possible, and not give the shooter a chance to "cool off". If a die flies off the table, you always hear people say "Same die!", i.e., don't give me a new die to shoot with. As if it makes a difference. You never say the word "Seven" while someone is rolling. And whatever you do, never have your hands on the table when someone is rolling. If they 7 out, you will get blamed.

And as baci mentions, attractive women, especially if they say they have never played before, are supposed to be gold at the craps table. Newbie men, on the other hand, are always assumed to be poison.
 

booboobear

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1HandInMyPocket said:
some vids to help you boo in case you didn't know. I also recommend getting a craps book to help you learn a bit more if you're really interest in continuing to play craps. I think I may want to try to play again. The book I have is "Gamble to Win Craps" by R. D. Ellison. Never finished reading the book so can't comment on it yet, but it did help me learn the basics though I did have some problems reading the more complicated parts.

video on betting on place bets 6 & 8.

video about bad bets, what homonger was talking about.

You should try playing again I will , hope I don't run into idiots I have in blackjack. Good videos thanks
 

homonger

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toronto04 said:
Anyone know what the table mins are at craps in Casino Rama?
During the day (the only time I've been at Rama) the table mins at craps are $10 or $25. The odds are 3x, 4x, 5x.
 

booboobear

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homonger said:
During the day (the only time I've been at Rama) the table mins at craps are $10 or $25. The odds are 3x, 4x, 5x.


What do you mean the odds are 3 x 4 x 5 x are pass bets 1 to 1
At niagara minimum before 4 p.m. is $ 5
 

homonger

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booboobear said:
What do you mean the odds are 3 x 4 x 5 x are pass bets 1 to 1
At niagara minimum before 4 p.m. is $ 5
Yes, passline bets pay 1 to 1, but I am referring to the odds bet behind the passline. At Rama there are limits to how much you can put behind your passline bet, and they vary depending on what the point is.

If the point is 4 or 10, your odds bet can be no more than 3x your passline bet. If the point is 5 or 9, your odds bet can be no more than 4x, and if the point is 6 or 8, your odds bet can be no more than 5x.

See above discussion about odds bets.
 

booboobear

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homonger said:
Yes, passline bets pay 1 to 1, but I am referring to the odds bet behind the passline. At Rama there are limits to how much you can put behind your passline bet, and they vary depending on what the point is.

If the point is 4 or 10, your odds bet can be no more than 3x your passline bet. If the point is 5 or 9, your odds bet can be no more than 4x, and if the point is 6 or 8, your odds bet can be no more than 5x.

See above discussion about odds bets.
OK thanks got it now . I am surpised Rama is $ 10 minimum and casino niagara is $ 5 or maybe I am surprised niagara is not $ 10
 

baci2004

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At the range!!!
I hit Fallsview on Saturday night and the minimum was $15 and $5 at Casino Niagara on Sunday afternoon.

On Sunday afternoon I brought my hot newbie SO over to the table and let her roll the bones for the first time....worked like a charm! She made six points in one turn and brought down a small handful of my come bets whcih almost paid for our trip....good girl! :)
 

booboobear

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baci2004 said:
I hit Fallsview on Saturday night and the minimum was $15 and $5 at Casino Niagara on Sunday afternoon.

On Sunday afternoon I brought my hot newbie SO over to the table and let her roll the bones for the first time....worked like a charm! She made six points in one turn and brought down a small handful of my come bets whcih almost paid for our trip....good girl! :)

Can I borrow her ? Those minimums are interesting I always go to the old casino and on Saturdays before 4.00 p.m. it's always been only $ 5
I think a $ 15 minimum is more in the casinos favour and keeps a lot of people away at least the casual players . I suppose if you are winning it's better at $ 15 a pop but unless you are carrying a decent bankroll it would reduce the number of place bets you make .
 
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